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post #1 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Fish's big block project

Hello fella's

I got very curious of seeing some guys fitting a scooter cylinder onto a Cag engine case. So I went to a moped store and bought this cylinder for morini engines, I shortened the base of the cylinder to have the right length and fitted it on the engine case. Now I still have some questions left..

At the moment the most important question is:

Can I weld some extra aluminum on to the engine case to be able to use all the cylinder ports and to make the engine case more sturdy?

Here are some pics of the progress

And thanks in advance, and kind regards!

Fish










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Re: Fish's big block project

I really cant see your point in doing this especially when the engine was a 49cc and alls youre adding is one CC to make it 50cc's and adding a lil more engine longevity but at the same time alot more weight to shock the engine mounts..

Have you mapped out the ports yet and checked it all against the stroke?

They have other utility engines with a bigger displacement that would work alot better aswell as give you more power...........Redmax and Stihl come to mind

As far as your questions........You can try adding more aluminum but I think seeings the aluminum is cast it may not turn out as desired as I never had the chinese aluminum tested as for its metallurgical makeup....

It would be best to make an adapter spacer then blend it all together with a dremel..................Good Luck

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post #3 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

Well the ports are way bigger, so it should give allot more power (atleast I think so.. correct me if I'm wrong) so with a spacer there will be no need to weld some extra aluminum on to the engine case if I build it correctly? I will also ask a friend of mine to have his malossi 70cc cylinder and maybe I will order a 70cc in aluminum if it is do-able work

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post #4 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

And another idea that I have is to close off the reed opening and cut/weld one on top of the case or maybe a 44-5 cyl port engine would be better to do this modification since I do not need to close off the reed port on the back of the engine case(like the polini engines and some other engines) I would love to build my ultimate Cag engine

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post #5 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

Yeah i was going to make a adapter for the cylinder to fill up the space, and yes the cylinder is heavy af, I will check for an aluminum one,

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post #6 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-12-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

The cylinder adapter is being fabricated.. progress will follow next week

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post #7 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-13-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

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Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
I really cant see your point in doing this especially when the engine was a 49cc and alls youre adding is one CC to make it 50cc's and adding a lil more engine longevity but at the same time alot more weight to shock the engine mounts..

Have you mapped out the ports yet and checked it all against the stroke?

They have other utility engines with a bigger displacement that would work alot better aswell as give you more power...........Redmax and Stihl come to mind

As far as your questions........You can try adding more aluminum but I think seeings the aluminum is cast it may not turn out as desired as I never had the chinese aluminum tested as for its metallurgical makeup....

It would be best to make an adapter spacer then blend it all together with a dremel..................Good Luck


Sorry that it took so long to make this port map chart..

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post #8 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-13-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
I really cant see your point in doing this especially when the engine was a 49cc and alls youre adding is one CC to make it 50cc's and adding a lil more engine longevity but at the same time alot more weight to shock the engine mounts..

Have you mapped out the ports yet and checked it all against the stroke?

They have other utility engines with a bigger displacement that would work alot better aswell as give you more power...........Redmax and Stihl come to mind

As far as your questions........You can try adding more aluminum but I think seeings the aluminum is cast it may not turn out as desired as I never had the chinese aluminum tested as for its metallurgical makeup....

It would be best to make an adapter spacer then blend it all together with a dremel..................Good Luck


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post #9 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-13-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project



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post #10 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

@Cam2 or anyone else who has experience with porting cylinders like this one.. What do you think bout the ports and the portmap

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Re: Fish's big block project

Is it a steel cyld or just heavy alum?? I bought a Stihl 52mm bore chainsaw cyld and piston kit, made in China, for less than $20. With a Cag reed port 32mm stroke think it would be 68cc. Its flat on the bottom, no skirt. The problem is the 4 mount holes in the Cag cases are on a smaller pattern than the Stihl, which cover half the case holes, so I can't re-drill and tap them. Thinking about gluing cut off alum billet bolt threads into the OEM mount holes then re-drilling and tap for the Stihl cylds. Mine only has one intake port where the carb mount to the head. Your cyld looks more like a water cooled one. I bought this kit cause it was cheap, hlsupply.com in Florida I believe, they have many different cyld kits fron small to Big. On my cases going to mount an alum plate where the reeds were and fill the inside with JB Weld to just clear the crank and make a smaller area inside the cases. See Photos.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 100_0538.JPG (502.6 KB, 20 views)

Empty Pockets Racing: The difficult we do, the impossible takes longer.....

Last edited by EPR; 04-14-2016 at 05:39 PM.
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post #12 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-15-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

Looks great epr! And yeah that's a great solution for the problem that you are facing with the holes, I would definitely do that too if I had to!

I do recommend to use loctite on the bolts that you will use to fill up the old mounting holes, I'd would be a disaster if they would come lose due vibrations and fall in the engine case

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post #13 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-15-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

The cyl is made from forged iron/steel and the holes that you see on the bottom are all port holes, that's 1 of the 2 reasons that I had to make a adaptation piece to fit the cylinder

The reasons why:

Reason 1: to fill up the 8mm of space between the engine case and the cylinder

Reason 2: to match the cylinder ports, since they are way bigger then the ports of a regular Cag cylinder 😁😏

There's still a question spooking around in my head..

How the heck did that one guy from Canada fit a 70cc airsal cylinder on the Cag engine case and how did he match those cylinder ports on the engine case???



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Re: Fish's big block project

Your not going to be able to use the rear intake port, right?? The 8mm thick plate that you make, you make each side of it fit the part it mates too, and blend it in the middle. As long as there are no ridges and the passageways & ports are smooth, it should work fine.
I am thinking of JB welding the alum threads into the block and then re-drill and tap. I have blue & red thread sealer. Thing I use the most, Permatex anti-sieze compound in a tube on all threads. It also keeps the bolt are nut from turning loose. Great on steel bolts to alum rim threads.
I got this mini milling table for $50 direct from Hong Kong. Mounts to the base or drill press table. For around $2 each got 4 flute 2 to 12mm end mills and a few ball end ones for making inside radius. Hard carbon steel.
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post #15 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-15-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

I think i will also get one like that now that I see the great purpose of it

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Re: Fish's big block project

And I asked the guy to make the adapter 10mm longer for the boost port

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Re: Fish's big block project

hlsupply has one day sales all the time. I just took a chance that I could make it fit, I could not see that the cyld did not have a skirt when
I bought it. For $18.99 for the kit, I figured at that price didn't have much to lose. Two weeks ago I got 200ft of #4 heavy starter cord on a roll from HL, on one day sale $8.49 and $12.09 shipping, which almost killed the deal, still less than 5 cents a foot total. Will make 60 something starter cords, lol. Today it was $13.50 and shipping.
There are a bunch of different cylds, from 37mm bores to around 60mm on the big chopsaws. Mine is for a Stihl MS380, 52mm bore. It is an over size kit for a 50mm bore cyld. If you can get the distance on the mount holes and find a cyld that is closer to the Cag cases cyld threaded holes. Then you can oblong the new cyld holes to match the Cag case holes.

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post #18 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

Im lucky with my cyl kit, turns out that Moroni ac engines have the same mounting holes as a cag engine. I did had to chop 10mm of the cyl skirt though

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Re: Fish's big block project

Is that fish one of them Pike's that you need steel line on your hook to catch them?? Well, my 2 cents says " Your feets wet, might as well jump in the water", lol. Your half way there might as well finish it. My engine with 52mm bore, the cyld is to long and its flat on the bottom, and the mount tab alum is not very thick, do not want to take material there. I had the crank in the cases with the 52mm piston and cyld over it, way to much space at TDC. So, I made a 1" round circle from 1/4" alum plate, and have to figure a way to mount it to the top of the piston. Countersunk screws??, that's where I am stuck at, lol. HLsupply has some 47cc bore Stihl cyld kits. It is the stroke length of the chainsaw that is longer than my Cag crank.

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post #20 of 933 (permalink) Old 04-17-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Fish's big block project

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Is that fish one of them Pike's that you need steel line on your hook to catch them?? Well, my 2 cents says " Your feets wet, might as well jump in the water", lol. Your half way there might as well finish it. My engine with 52mm bore, the cyld is to long and its flat on the bottom, and the mount tab alum is not very thick, do not want to take material there. I had the crank in the cases with the 52mm piston and cyld over it, way to much space at TDC. So, I made a 1" round circle from 1/4" alum plate, and have to figure a way to mount it to the top of the piston. Countersunk screws??, that's where I am stuck at, lol. HLsupply has some 47cc bore Stihl cyld kits. It is the stroke length of the chainsaw that is longer than my Cag crank.
Or you can cut off the top and add a 4 piece kit after putting the head kit on a turntable to adjust the compression dome and if needed the dome adapter.

Yeah that's the fish, though I never use steel wires cause I don't like the flexibility of them, I use 1mm thick fluorocarbon as a leader

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