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What about that 40cc 4 stroke

17K views 61 replies 7 participants last post by  CAM2 
#1 ·
Has anyone laid eyes on these 40cc 4 stroke engines that come on the m1.
I'd really like to see some pics of one but I CANNOT find any.lil help please!!
 
#2 ·
I have only seen an M2 w/ Ducati style frame and a dirt bike 40cc four stroke. The engine is gutless, there are no high performance parts and the way it's put together, it's almost impossible to modify it. The members here who have bought one, were not happy compared to the 2 strokes. I love the frame and the body work, but thanks to Obama, No more 2 stroke bikes are imported. A 2 stroke fires every time the piston hits the top, a 4 stroke every other time plus it has to gear drive a cam and valves etc. which takes power from the engine. There only 40" long, and about $499 shipped, my A2 is 44". You would have to do some welding to get a 2 stroke in the new bikes, if it's even possible.
I would search on Craigslist & eBay etc., to find a good 2 stroke reed port engine bike, still a lot of hp parts for them and it's real easy tp modify them with very few tools. What state or country do you live in?? See dirt bike & engine Photos.
Search eBay: 40cc 2 stroke pocket bikes, and see what shows up.
 

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#3 ·
Exactly what I was looking for.
And thanks for the info.
I really like the looks of the m1
I saw them on walmart.Com for 309.00.do you know by chance if those are 3 piece motor.if so I would really like to attempt a build on one.bore it ,stroke it and port it.luckily my dad builds and ports drag bike engines so I have a little experience,not a lot but a little.and maybe put one of those small superchargers on it.I know its a lot but I like a challenge.whadda ya thank!
 
#4 ·
That's the problem, I have never seen how the engine is put together, but have been told the way the cyld is it would be hard to do. I would go to Walmart with your dad and look at the engine close up. I owned and friend that sold me his bike after he finished his Funny Bike Nitro drag bike, had to redo and put the engine back together, he did all the machining work I put it together, a 1015cc full race engine Kawasaki Pro Stock drag bike a few decades ago, well till I crashed it, lol. Here is one of my a projects a pocket rocket drag bike with water cooled clone Polini engine.
 

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#5 · (Edited)
Update: Here is another plan, I just left WallyWorld, you might think about buying the $309 bike with a 33cc 2 stroke piston port engine, take it out and build a 49cc P/P hot rod engine. Since you work on hp engines it should be pretty easy, I know way more about that engine and have built a few.
The 33cc is just a smaller version of parts of which are not inter changeable with the bigger case-bigger crank 43cc 40mm bore and 49cc 44mm bore engines that have the same crank but bigger bore cyld, might have to mod the frame mount holes, but it should be pretty easy. A stock 49 and a hot rod 49cc
 

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#6 ·
Great idea,I like the hopped up 49cc you have there.does it have an ada head and cylinder.I've seen that type of head before and they really look like good quality.
I started building my so a bike last year it has a stretched swing arm similar to yours.I think I had a thread maybe drag cag.it actually started as a blata 2.5.I got started back on it a few months ago.I'll find the thread and post some updates it's really coming along.
But as far as the 4 stroke,I'm just not sure.the we sites make them sound so nice.I've built a couple 2 strokes and I guess I'm just looking to do something a little different.I guess once I get it ,"if I get it" and it's crap I can always just throw it in the old igloo parts cooler along with ALL my other fails,lol.
 
#7 ·
Rule #1, Never believe what you see on the internet, lol. They lie like Dogs, especially when it comes to horsepower and top speed, lol. Yeah, love to see the Blata project, we love photos here, and project bikes the Crazier the better. I think the problem with the 40cc honda clone engine is, the cases and cyld are one piece or something like that, I was told that its almost impossible to modify it. Never going to beat a hopped up 2 stroke. The Cag MT-A1 reed port engine is the easiest engine to modify and there are tons of cheap parts, I get stuff direct from China. I sold the red head engine months ago, it has a reed port alum alloy head mounted on a cut 49cc piston port cyld. I hacked sawed the top off under the 5 fin down, then had to grind, machine & surface the ring that the reed port head sits on. No hp cylds for the piston port engine. The reed port, which the R/P will fit the $309 you can get a kit for around $80 shipped with 15:1 Billet Alum Wing Head, cyld, piston and rings, full circle racing crank, gaskets everything you need. These guys modified some piston port parts, cut stock cyld and machine a head, this is right up your alley.
 

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#8 ·
Epr,Well I thought about it and saw something that really caught my eye.
It was a w/c 30cc b1 replica,it looks pretty cool.quality doesn't look to bad either.
Problem is the site I saw it on doesn't seem to wanna answer the phone or emails.seems like I saw where you may have mentioned having a blata replica.
Would you happen to know whO sales them.the b1 replica or the 30cc zt w/c.
There at gocartsusa.com,but I can seem to get in touch.Any help would be much appreciated,pbp peeps. Thanks
 
#10 · (Edited)
Don't Do It, the engines are OK, but the water pump system sucks. I have a 50cc ( 46cc ) C1 Blata clone, and most of the time its apart. Also have an air cooled 39cc Blata clone, in a W/C C1 frame, 13 bikes and 5 project bikes. The C1 W/C is the Worst, the pump is inside the engine cases, and you have to remove the engine and split the cases to fix it, its driven by a O ring belt off the back of the flywheel to the pump pulley under the rope starter housing. The OEM stuff don't last long, and when it fails you don't know till your engine is Fried. Just got mine back together, for the second time, afraid to start it now, although I put SKF bearings, crank and pump and Dupont Viton red water pump shaft seals.
I would look for a 40cc or 50cc, Polini clone engine bike where the pump is on the outside of the engine, I put 3 black lines on the pump pulley so I can tell if its turning. If you can find an air cooled Blata clone, that's ok. I would try to find a W/C blata clone that don't run and convert it to air cooled, the cases are the same, you just leave the water pump off. On my avatar bike made in Italy, GRC GP w/ all alum frame, I cut the body work on the left side near the bottom, so I can see if the pump pulley is turning. It has a 40cc W/C Polini clone engine with a Polini bell and & BZM racing clutch.
Find Kray15's post under Water cooled bike, he will tell you the same story. See photos, first 2 are my W/C C1, the next 2 air the A/C Blata clone, and the last is the 40cc W/C Polini in my avatar bike. I am building a Euro 40cc BZM racing engine as we speak for my avatar bike. Rule #2 Let the Buyer Beware, lol.
 

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#11 ·
Man those are for sure some sweet looking bikes.
So,the banshee sho reproduction polini style, it looks good.
I saw a page that shows mid south mini moto having them for 695.is that right.may be an old page.
Anyways,do you know who sales the reproduction polini bikes or any other decent quality reps .I Can't afford the real thing but would like to get one of the knock offs.I just can't find anywhere that sales them .that alibaba site.but seems like you have to be a business owner or something.can't get any responses from anyone.
Any help would be much appreciated fellas.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I know Stoney at Mid-South, thats where I get all my Euro parts. $695, for a China Polini engine is way to much. The last photo is my GRC with a 40cc Polini clone engine, a 36mm bore the 50cc has a 40mm bore and a 39mm stroke. My Banshee Sho is a copy of the GRC-GP, but it has a copy chrome steel frame. See photos. The first three are 50cc Banshee and the last 2 are the Euro 40cc BZM 690 racing cases and cyld and head, for the engine I am building for the avatar GRC-GP.
PS: I was looking for a China W/C Polini 2 weeks ago, can't find one anymore, on eBay or internet stores. Plenty of 39cc W/C Blata clone engine though, lol. Go to www. tsunamibike .com in Canada, 2 stroke parts, page 5. The have a39cc W/C Polini's for $350, & I think the $400 D1 Polini clone is the 50cc engine, there complete ready to rock and roll, and they have the Blata 39cc air cooled engine for $250 too. There shipping cost are real expensive, did not look but they have a phone and email address.
 

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#13 ·
Can someone help me out.
I've looked everywhere I can think to look.
Does any body sell the complete grc gp copy bikes or banshee clones really any of the clones,complete bikes.I have found complete engines ,"thanks EPR". BUT I can't find any complete bikes for sale,every one I find is an old page.is it legal to sell them in the us anymore?
I would even like to find something used but I can't seem to do that either.
Any help would be much appreciated.
 
#14 ·
They have not made the Banshee Sho for 10 years?? Mine is a 2006 I think, my real GRC GP is too. Used is the only way to get one now, I just put a new 40mm cyld, piston & rings and 15:1 billet alum ADA Racing head on it. I would sell it online, but shipping is to much now, $200 plus dollars
 
#17 ·
The're not going to let you import even a used 2 stroke bike from Europe, last year off eBay I bought a used 2 stroke engine from England $30 shipping costs, shipped Pitney Bowes, customs in NY., NY. sent it back. All 2 stroke motorcycles are illegal now, except the gutless 33cc 2 stroke Cags sold even by Wally World.
Shipping a whole bike, I don't even want to ask, lol.
 
#18 ·
Yea, search minimotoscout24.it if you add me as a friend I'll add you to all the pages. My name is Kyle Stanton Ray. Right now there is a guy selling a grc rsr 50cc for €500. I have a few friends who have bought their bikes from Italy.

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#19 ·
Well,I figured I'd go ahead and get one of those m1's with a four stroke engine.
If it doesn't work out I can always throw a 2 stroker on it.
I've got a turbo system I'm gonna try.
May work may not.
I know the 40cc doesn't have enough exhaust power to turn a turbo up to enough rpm to get any boost.
So I thought how about a whole separate engine to power the turbo!!
2 throttle cables and a small extra fuel tank and viola!
I went ahead and got a start .here's some pics.
You fellas think it might work?
Oh yeah the engine is a 23cc zenoah
12 0r 13000 rpm
 

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#20 ·
Killer, just when it was getting boring here, lol. It will probably work in some form, and my view is, you don't know if you don't try, lol. Can't wait to see how it works out.
 
#22 ·
Got it 40cc 4 stroker
Here's some pics of the engine and some other things.
$299 shipped.not bad
But it is a 2 piece engine.I'll be able to port the head ,
I'm gonna add fuel injection off a stiHL concrete saw.make an exhaust .take it down under the engine and over the rear tire.then hopefully my turbo idea has enough room.as far as stock top speed .I took it apart before I ran it lol.
I'm gonna put it back together break the engine in and get some speeds to compare to to see if anything I'm doing is making any progress.the bike is actually put together pretty well.the welds are nice and the rear dropouts on the swingarm are a pretty beffy design.I don't know about these transmissions though.I have NO experience with them to know if it will help my speed or hinder it??????
Any body wanna see anything I missed let me know abound I can take more pics.
I think I like it!!!!
 

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#23 ·
Looking good, I love the frames on the new Cag, much better than the old ones, lol. Can't wait to see what you do with it, going to make a great project bike. I would add about 6" to the rear arms, that will get your but off the rear axle. The adds say the engine turns 10,000 RPMs. I have a couple of 25mm Stihl Chop Saw pumper carbs going on one of my 50cc 2 stroke bikes. For $12 you can get a Stihl 21mm clone pumper carb direct from China also.
 

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#24 ·
Looks sweet! Before you add the turbo do all you can and document it, we are a bunch of 2 smokers here and want to learn to improve these 4 stroke Honda water pumps. I love the frame and wouldn't mind getting one eventually.

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#25 ·
If you get some rectangle steel tubing 3/4" x 1 1/2" x .093" you can cut your rear arms in the middle somewhere, add what ever you need, 6 to 8" that tubing should slide over the arms make it 2" longer than needed and slide rectangle tubing 1" over each end and weld them. That will make the bike a lot more stable and mount a plate a crossed forward to mount your 26cc engine for the turbo.
 
#26 ·
What turbo do you plan to run? A tb-03 is about as small as they come. Does anyone know a name for this engine yet? I just bought a "49r" and it has the 4stroke. I plan to port, increase compression in the head by adding material, reshaping the combustion chamber, and seeing if I can reshape the cam lobe. All in all, this engine is getting a bad rap around here, but I think it's largely due to "new fangled technology", lack of "bolt on performance", and lack of experience with the engine.

Oh, yeah. First post. Hello everyone. I'll introduce myself in the intro forum.
 
#27 ·
Welcome!
I agree with you, but the engine does only put out 1.5hp stock vs the 2.5 of the 2 strokes. But yes we don't know much about them, and they are so expensive it's hard to justify buying one just to tinker with it.

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