I disagree, they can be just as fast or faster when modded. The piston port makes a lot of torque, it just doesn't rev as high as the reed case motors do. Once modified the piston port 49cc can spin a few extra grand and be more powerful. Try going out on the track and pull up next to a X1 with some mods and see how that heavy bike will pull on you. stock to stock the power is similar but the Cag motor revs higher so it keeps pulling. There is that Tornado pocket bike that has the 49cc in it and that is a funky but cool bike.
I disagree, they can be just as fast or faster when modded. The piston port makes a lot of torque, it just doesn't rev as high as the reed case motors do. Once modified the piston port 49cc can spin a few extra grand and be more powerful. Try going out on the track and pull up next to a X1 with some mods and see how that heavy bike will pull on you. stock to stock the power is similar but the Cag motor revs higher so it keeps pulling. There is that Tornado pocket bike that has the 49cc in it and that is a funky but cool bike.
Of course the ported engine would be faster if modded! What happens if the cag is modded? And how much? I think we are talking stock here.
the x-1 motors are a lot more reliable than the cags motor i kno this becaus ei have ha d a gas scooter that ahd the x-1 engine on it nd i would run stright gas throgh it nd it still runs
I disagree, they can be just as fast or faster when modded. The piston port makes a lot of torque, it just doesn't rev as high as the reed case motors do. Once modified the piston port 49cc can spin a few extra grand and be more powerful. Try going out on the track and pull up next to a X1 with some mods and see how that heavy bike will pull on you. stock to stock the power is similar but the Cag motor revs higher so it keeps pulling. There is that Tornado pocket bike that has the 49cc in it and that is a funky but cool bike.
When we start talking mods, it's all about he who puts the most time and money into his motor wins, but even with mods a reed induced engine will have more power potential than a piston port engine.
no one said we were comparing stock for stock. If you could get that motor onto a cag it would be interesting to see some races. I just sold my cag and x2, but the x2 would spank the hell out of my cag, both modded. I also noticed better results from my bolt ons when installed on the midbike, as compared to the cag. Fastest my cag ever went was 33-34mph. X2 highest speed was 43mph or so. The cag would pull a little at first, but a couple seconds into it, its all midbike, and it smokes the cag with similar mods. Also it weighs alot more. 2hp sounds like a low estimate, a midbike orlly wouldn't even move with such a low amount, and if its less at the wheel, it couldn't get out of its own way. My x2 went 26mph stock, cag went 27-28mph stock.
that is exactly what I am talking about, modded X1s pull modded cags with relative ease and not that many mods versus highly modded cags. Please remember that the 2.4hp rating of the X1 midbikes is with an extremely crappy straight pipe, just putting on a pipe on an X1 makes a huge difference VS on the Cags it makes a difference but not night and day like the pipes on the midbikes. The engine develops more torque and it makes the power at a lower RPM range which is why those bikes pull hard. It is relatively easy to get 40mph out of a heavy midbike with good accelaration while it is nearly impossible to get it out of a Cag because with the tall gearing it takes to go 40 it doesn't have enough low end torque to accelarate well like the midbikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman47cc
no one said we were comparing stock for stock. If you could get that motor onto a cag it would be interesting to see some races. I just sold my cag and x2, but the x2 would spank the hell out of my cag, both modded. I also noticed better results from my bolt ons when installed on the midbike, as compared to the cag. Fastest my cag ever went was 33-34mph. X2 highest speed was 43mph or so. The cag would pull a little at first, but a couple seconds into it, its all midbike, and it smokes the cag with similar mods. Also it weighs alot more. 2hp sounds like a low estimate, a midbike orlly wouldn't even move with such a low amount, and if its less at the wheel, it couldn't get out of its own way. My x2 went 26mph stock, cag went 27-28mph stock.
nonononoo...no...because the highest rpms you can ever hit on a midbike withot EXTENSIVE porting and headkitting is like 10000. on my cag motor im hittin 11000 almost stock, and going 38 mph. the fastest stock x1 ive seen tops out at a whopping 19. x2s can pul on cags cuz of cvt. otherwise midbikes do not have substantially more torque than cags
wrrrooongg, you should come out to the track and I will show you non-CVT X1s that are only spinning 8500rpm but making more horsepower than a Cag motor at 11,000. You do know that horsepower is torqueXRpm/5250? So if you have a motor that makes 10ft/lbs of torque at 5250 it makes 10hp where a motor that makes 5ft/lbs of torque at 10,500 rpm is also only 10 hp but the motor that makes the power lower is less peaky and accelarates better. Believe me, I have Cags and midbikes, I race Cags since they are pocket bikes but they do not stand a chance no matter how modified against a modded midbike on the track.
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Originally Posted by sikksikksikk
nonononoo...no...because the highest rpms you can ever hit on a midbike withot EXTENSIVE porting and headkitting is like 10000. on my cag motor im hittin 11000 almost stock, and going 38 mph. the fastest stock x1 ive seen tops out at a whopping 19. x2s can pul on cags cuz of cvt. otherwise midbikes do not have substantially more torque than cags
i still dont agree but whatever...i still think 43/49cc engines are made out of potluck metal and all the engine mounts break....the electric start blows job...soo many ineficcenties(sp?)
no one said we were comparing stock for stock. If you could get that motor onto a cag it would be interesting to see some races. I just sold my cag and x2, but the x2 would spank the hell out of my cag, both modded. I also noticed better results from my bolt ons when installed on the midbike, as compared to the cag. Fastest my cag ever went was 33-34mph. X2 highest speed was 43mph or so. The cag would pull a little at first, but a couple seconds into it, its all midbike, and it smokes the cag with similar mods. Also it weighs alot more. 2hp sounds like a low estimate, a midbike orlly wouldn't even move with such a low amount, and if its less at the wheel, it couldn't get out of its own way. My x2 went 26mph stock, cag went 27-28mph stock.
That's a good comparison about the stock X2 and the stock Cag. if I'm not mistaken the X2 has the CVT transmission that makes it not only accelerate faster than the X1 but also has a higher top speed cuz of the constant changing gear ratio.
You also said the cag was faster than the X2 when they were both in stock trim, not by much but the cag was faster. If I was going to borrow parts from the midibikes I'd find a way to make that CVT transmission work on a Cag and forget about the engine swap since the cag motor was designed to be a high performance engine from the get go.
The 49cc engines were initially industrial engines that had some decent power behind them and found their way into propelling midibikes. Yeah they are more reliable but the midibikes were meant for looking cool and much lower maintenance, the fact that they do have some top end power is just a small bonus.
The Cag engines were designed to be high performance engines with the reed valve configuration, a 10:1 compression ratio, and agressive port timing right out of the box. They were made for racing and as a result they are high maintenance. At the cost of some conveniance these engines are the more powerful choice stock or modded.
ok how about put the 39cc stock motor in a x bike see how it does.. the put the 44cc(49) in the cag?
anyway ..he who has the best mods wins.. and i am affraid that the piston port motor has the best mods dollar for dollar hp for hp ..and there is just more of them..hmm why is that..
its a more realiable motor..and seems that all one needs to do is..get the 49cc motor screaming in the rpms and it wins hands down..
more rpms=win the race
and it is easier to increase the rpms of a piston port motor than a reed injected..
please coorect me if i am uninformed..
i have a few motors kicking around i might try it..motor swap..
but my pocket bike has a 49cc motor in it already and it goies 47mph so i might try the redd see how it does..
I have to disagree with your bartw. There is no way a midbike should be beating a cag in a track. Take an open cag class bike (for example, one designed by psws, ada, or badazz) and race it against an open class midbike (no engine swaps allowed, lets keep it simple), and the cag should win everytime, hands down, granted the racer has skills on a cag.
How do your midbikes do against open class italian bikes? Because PSWS does pretty **** well with their cag against our open class italian bikes, and I highly doubt even a souped up midbike can beat an open class italian bike.
Just my .02. With my experiences on the track, no way a cag or italian bike should lose to a midbike on a track. Now, if the track has really really long straight aways, it might be possible but even then, if a racer know's how to tune his bike correctly for each track condition, then that racer on a cag should win.
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Originally Posted by bartw
wrrrooongg, you should come out to the track and I will show you non-CVT X1s that are only spinning 8500rpm but making more horsepower than a Cag motor at 11,000. You do know that horsepower is torqueXRpm/5250? So if you have a motor that makes 10ft/lbs of torque at 5250 it makes 10hp where a motor that makes 5ft/lbs of torque at 10,500 rpm is also only 10 hp but the motor that makes the power lower is less peaky and accelarates better. Believe me, I have Cags and midbikes, I race Cags since they are pocket bikes but they do not stand a chance no matter how modified against a modded midbike on the track.
the problem is that the midbikes handle much better, the X# bikes have a longer wheelbase and larger wheels and you can get your weight much further off it, a slightly modded midbike has no problems reeling in 4.2s (with riders that place in the top at national events) so that is where the problem lies. The piston port motor makes tons of torque, perhaps at some extensive level of mods the Cag surpasses it again but with simple mods the midbikes win, trust me I don't even race the midbikes because I love pocket bikes but that is the case on the track and now with some pretty nice 4 strokes and gears on the midbikes they are starting to be a lot more like YSRs on the track.
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Originally Posted by snowboardgeek1
I have to disagree with your bartw. There is no way a midbike should be beating a cag in a track. Take an open cag class bike (for example, one designed by psws, ada, or badazz) and race it against an open class midbike (no engine swaps allowed, lets keep it simple), and the cag should win everytime, hands down, granted the racer has skills on a cag.
How do your midbikes do against open class italian bikes? Because PSWS does pretty **** well with their cag against our open class italian bikes, and I highly doubt even a souped up midbike can beat an open class italian bike.
Just my .02. With my experiences on the track, no way a cag or italian bike should lose to a midbike on a track. Now, if the track has really really long straight aways, it might be possible but even then, if a racer know's how to tune his bike correctly for each track condition, then that racer on a cag should win.
