C1 / Hydra AC Performance Issue

pbnut · 05-02-2005

I have a friend that just bought an air cooled version of the C1 or Hydra. I have a half fairing cag and I so that is what I am comparing it to. My friends bike has a few odd behaviors that I thought I would run by all of you and maybe someone here knows what is going on. First of all, his bike is super slow off of the line. When I got the AC C1 on a straight away I could feel it was much stronger on the top end but there is no way that thing will keep up with my stock half fairing cag around and out of the corners because it is so slow. He is asking me what mods he should do to make it faster but I am just not sure what the problem is. I have read all about how bad those clutches are so could that be the problem? What are the symptoms of a bad or burned out clutch? Should I tell him to get new clutch springs or can the stock ones be adjusted? Seems to me that if it revved a little higher before it engaged then it might be a lot faster on the low end. My last thought is that maybe the carb isn't tuned properly. Anyway, if you think that you have an idea of why this "cag killer" isn't that fast at all then please let me know.

theprofessor · 05-02-2005

i would suggest a new clutch i have an x12 and the stock clutch wasn't grabbing you would have to push it a couple times to get it to engage and when you wanted to shift
if you want it to accelerate a little faster buy a smaller sprocket it will increas you acceleration but you will loose a little top speed also let the motor and the bike brake in a bit and the start tweeking the carb if you run it a little the way it is you will notice a little diffirance in how it runs but after tuning it should be pretty fast

fixo · 05-02-2005

i had the same problem with mine...check the gearing ,if it has the 52 back and a 7 front like mine did he will need to change it .maybe try a 70 or 74 tooth in the back (also you know when you smoking the clutch when you smell it burning). there is a long list of mods that can be done to make it faster ,but try and get the gearing right 7//52 is wrong everywhere and will waist his clutch if this is the case....

badazztoyz.com · 05-02-2005

bring it to my office

pbnut · 05-03-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixo

i had the same problem with mine...check the gearing ,if it has the 52 back and a 7 front like mine did he will need to change it .maybe try a 70 or 74 tooth in the back (also you know when you smoking the clutch when you smell it burning). there is a long list of mods that can be done to make it faster ,but try and get the gearing right 7//52 is wrong everywhere and will waist his clutch if this is the case....

Yeah the clutch was smoking / burning from day one. Are you saying that is because of improper gearing or just a crappy clutch? When I see my friend this weekend, I will definitely check his gearing, all I remember is thinking that his sprocket looked really small.

potpie · 05-03-2005

7 52 gearing? wow! NO wonder your clutch is getting hot!!

thats 7.24 :1 ratio 6/68 gears is 11.3 (most cags stock)
http://www.minimotogarage.com/ecm_speed_calc.html

That gearing isnt good for anything except going down hills!!!
Change your gears at least get a 68+ rear sprocket! and check the clip position on the needle in the carb make sure it is 2nd closest to the tip of the needle? (to start) + have a good plug in there I use champion plugs cj7y there cheap and easy to find @ $1.50 Some day I hope to buy a AC C-1 for racing I got a liq C-1 and love it! I prefer the C-1 feel and handeling over cags!! espcially with a steering stabalizer!!

fixo · 05-04-2005

wrong gearing will smoke the best clutch,also lugging it around slipping the clutch will smoke a clutch see it all the time with new riders ....he will need to scuff his clutch shoes and the bell housing 320 grit or close and start over he shoud be goood to go with better gearing, so it sounds........

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbnut

Yeah the clutch was smoking / burning from day one. Are you saying that is because of improper gearing or just a crappy clutch? When I see my friend this weekend, I will definitely check his gearing, all I remember is thinking that his sprocket looked really small.

phazeone · 05-08-2005

would a 7 to 68 gearing smoke my clutch aswell

potpie · 05-08-2005

7/68 I dont think so ? I was geared 8 68 for a bit (what my bike came with) and no clutch probs stop and go riding will wear clutches more! YOU should be fine with 7 68 as long as you dont weigh 250+ lbs

snowborder891 · 05-22-2005

if anyone wnats to buy the hydra ac its the fastest air cooled bike and its stock i sell u mine for 400 shipped if u want i fixed everthing on it becasue they are full of **** when u buy them i went through only 2 taks of gas send me a private message if u are interested

pbnut · 06-05-2005

Alright, I am really confused about this AC knock off of the Blata Origami B1. I purchased a 68 tooth sprocket for my friends AC C1 because it was so slow off of the line and my thought was to get it at the same gearing as my 2 cags (6/68). When I got the back wheel off I discovered that this thing is NOT designed anything like my two half fairing cags. There are three gears and not two! There is a pinion gear that has 7 teeth which connects to a dual sprocket (each gear has 28 teeth) and then there is a rear sprocket which has 52 teeth. There are two chains involved in this set up. One chain connects the pinion gear (7 tooth) to the dual sprocket (28 tooth) and the other chain connects the other side of the dual sprocket (28 tooth) to the rear sprocket (52 tooth). There is no way that this 68 tooth sprocket will work unless I get the right size chain. The one currently on there is way too short.

I am going to try to organize my questions.
1. Are all Blata B1 Origami and Chinese knock offs of this bike designed in this same way where there are 3 sets of gears?
2. What is the gear ratio equivalent of a 6/68 half fairing cag for an AC C1 or Hydra? How do I do the math on three sets of gears?
3. How do I adjust the chain tension of the first chain aside from removing a link? It is extremely loose..
4. Can I buy a new middle dual sprocket? The teeth are badly worn on the side of the dual sprocket that drives the rear sprocket (my friend rode it too long with the chain loose). Are there different gear sizes available for this part?
5. What is the best way to change the size of the chain? What tools do I need and who has them for sale?
6. If the AC C1/Hydra is slow off of the line compared to a 6/68 HF cag, what is the recommended gearing for this bike? How can I make it accelerate faster? Does this bike accelerate faster with a bigger sprocket or a smaller sprocket if the default is 52 teeth? (I got confused when I read through the replies on this post. One person said to use a smaller sprocket and on person said to use a bigger one.)

Thanks to anyone who can help me figure all of this out. I have this friends bike torn apart in my garage and he is counting on me to get it running right for him.

pbnut · 06-05-2005

Oh and one more question about the gearing. I have researched the forums and one person said to add "a few more teeth" to the 52 tooth rear sprocket to make it accelerate better. Can it really be that a 54 or 55 tooth sprocket would really make that much of a difference? I have also seen it recommended to put a 74 tooth sprocket on the same bike. Couldn't there also be a point where if the sprocket was too large that the bike would accelerate great off of the line but suffer on the top speed?

pyro_incubis · 06-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbnut

Alright, I am really confused about this AC knock off of the Blata Origami B1. I purchased a 68 tooth sprocket for my friends AC C1 because it was so slow off of the line and my thought was to get it at the same gearing as my 2 cags (6/68). When I got the back wheel off I discovered that this thing is NOT designed anything like my two half fairing cags. There are three gears and not two! There is a pinion gear that has 7 teeth which connects to a dual sprocket (each gear has 28 teeth) and then there is a rear sprocket which has 52 teeth. There are two chains involved in this set up. One chain connects the pinion gear (7 tooth) to the dual sprocket (28 tooth) and the other chain connects the other side of the dual sprocket (28 tooth) to the rear sprocket (52 tooth). There is no way that this 68 tooth sprocket will work unless I get the right size chain. The one currently on there is way too short.

I am going to try to organize my questions.
1. Are all Blata B1 Origami and Chinese knock offs of this bike designed in this same way where there are 3 sets of gears?
2. What is the gear ratio equivalent of a 6/68 half fairing cag for an AC C1 or Hydra? How do I do the math on three sets of gears?
3. How do I adjust the chain tension of the first chain aside from removing a link? It is extremely loose..
4. Can I buy a new middle dual sprocket? The teeth are badly worn on the side of the dual sprocket that drives the rear sprocket (my friend rode it too long with the chain loose). Are there different gear sizes available for this part?
5. What is the best way to change the size of the chain? What tools do I need and who has them for sale?
6. If the AC C1/Hydra is slow off of the line compared to a 6/68 HF cag, what is the recommended gearing for this bike? How can I make it accelerate faster? Does this bike accelerate faster with a bigger sprocket or a smaller sprocket if the default is 52 teeth? (I got confused when I read through the replies on this post. One person said to use a smaller sprocket and on person said to use a bigger one.)

Thanks to anyone who can help me figure all of this out. I have this friends bike torn apart in my garage and he is counting on me to get it running right for him.

Reply to your ?#1
As far as I know most Blata B1 Origami and Chinese knock offs are not designed in this same way with 3 sets of gears ..I( have seen ones with one chain! I think it depends on what motor is in them..from what I have seen most cags based ones have 2 chains!

Reply to your ?#3
I don't think there is anoter way to adjust the chain unless you remove a link..Did you try a #6 pinion from a 7 is this way you have slack?

Reply to your ?#4
I have not seen that drum style sprocket anywhere eles nor have I seen it with different gearing on each side!

Reply to your ?#5
chain braker outlaw has em so does BAT! should also buy new master links

Reply to your ?#6
#6 pinion in the front will help..Also A 14/14 carb and headkit/new exhaust will help out!

I hope I helped you out a lill!