Well, I can't believe I'm writing this up again, since I swore I wouldn't. However, many new faces are asking the same old questions. So here it is all, my experience with my two pipes.
IP2 Race Pipe ~$120-$140 (so I hear)
Installation:
The IP2 pipe was a bit of a pain to install on my FF. I had to remove the front wheel, the seat and the motor entirely to get it on. It also requires the use of a "ball-end" allen wrench for the stock bolts, or the use of "hex head" bolts instead. Some members have noted that the stock silencer simply will not fit as there isn't enough room no matter how you try to install. Therefore, you may have to remove or alter the silencer in some cases. The rear mount on my bike did not align and I was forced to fabricate a spacer of sorts to connect the pipe to the frame. This allowed the pipe to be fastened without unneeded torque which could lead to premature failure of the welds or pipe itself. As the IP2 pipe was too close to my gas tank I was forced to fabricate a spacer for the top mount above gas tank and I had to put rubber and metal washer under all the seat bolts. Only then did I have the clearance to keep the pipe from melting my tank.
Tuning:
The IP2 pipe with stock needle and stock jet, ran like hell. Even with an air filter and velocity stack and the clip on the 5th setting, it simply ran like crap and sometimes wouldn't even get on the pipe at all. However, with the adjustable jet I was able to get the pipe to perform. This was not an easy task as it requires patience and a long trial-and-error process for the beginner to intermediate tuner. Ultimately, however I was able to find the right combination for the best performance my bike could attain with this pipe and my current setup. For me, it was the needle on the 5th setting with the jet ~1.5 to 2 turns out from full tight (lean).
Results:
I gained around 2mph top speed, and there was a undeniable improvement to mid range and top end pull. However, I had a bit of a flat spot off the line. It would take a few seconds for the bike to hit the pipe, as the RPMs only slightly crawled up, but when it did hit the pipe, there was a pronounced KICK and the bike ripped straight through the powerband with no further hesitation. I was able to get to +2 mph over my previous top speed in about 2/3 the distance or possibly a little less. It's worth mentioning that it has been suggested that using either 1) the stock needle instead of triple tapered or 2) self-tapering a stock needle will eliminate the flat spot off the line. However, I did not take the time to try these suggestions.
Application to Racing:
My crew rides on a very large, VERY tight and technical course. There are precious few opportunities to open the bike up for very long. Therefore, bottom end pull is extremely important at our races. When I used the IP2 pipe, I was rarely able to get on the pipe before running out of ground and having to brake. I was underpowered out of almost every single turn and as a result I was unable to compete with the faster riders. However, I'm thoroughly convinced that the mid/top power the IP2 pipe provides would be amazing on an open track with ample opportunities to go WOT (i.e. longer straights and gradual rather than super-tight turns). In drag races, the IP2 pipe would likely leave you a little behind a stock bike from the start, but by about 100 yard mark you would easily be walking away from the crowd.
Additional Info:
The 180 degree design of the IP2 silencer results in your motor being covered with exhaust residue and crap. This is a pain in the butt if you're working on your bike. Therefore, a silencer modification or re-direction is highly advised. I simply cut the silencer off, leaving ~1" of stinger sticking out of expansion chamber. I didn't notice any adverse performance, and the sound is GREAT. Only a hair louder than stock and no where near as obnoxious as the broken stock muffler, and best of all, no MESS on your motor. As for the sound of pipe with silencer, it is quieter than stock as it was designed for indoor racing. However, it does have a nice humm to it.
---------------------
JetPro Pipe ~$145 + shipping
Installation:
The JetPro pipe comes in three spring attached pieces. Therefore it offers flexibility in mounting. I mounted the piece off the header, then attached the second joint that 180s to the rear of the bike. Before attaching the 2nd spring to the 2nd and 3rd pieces, I attached the rear mount. Using the springs in this manner allowed me to move the pipe and shape it to fit my bike correctly. Plus, there are "wonderful" rubber spacers on the rear mount that ensure a nice fit in the rear without hassle and excess torque on the pipe. I had no problems with the installation. Approx. time = 10 mins. However, some members note that it did not fit on their "3rd generation CAGs" or that they had to modify their fairings on particular FF bikes. With the JetPro pipe I have, I don't see how this is the case, but nonetheless this is what HAS been reported. There was plenty of space between the gas tank and the pipe so I was able to remove the spacers that were necessary with IP2 pipe.
Tuning:
I installed the JetPro on my bike after it was tuned for the IP2. Initially the bike bogged right off the line. However, I "richened" the adjustable jet 1/4 turn out and this problem was solved. The bike absolutely ripped off the line but then stuttered through mid range. I richened the bike a little more, ~1/8 turn and there were no problems.
Results:
Extreme acceleration off the line and smooth progression through mid and top range. I retained the same top speed as with the IP2 but there was a noticeable decrease in mid/top end "kick" and pulling power--meaning I got to the same top speed but it took a little longer from mid range acceleration. However, the JetPro absolutely improved the bottom end and lower mid range pull. My bike NEVER had bottom end, and the JetPro almost instantly cured this. It feels as if I lean back on the bike that I could wheelie the **** thing. It is worth noting that I currently have a bit of a hesitation in mid range, not a stutter, but it simply doesn't pull that hard for about 1 second before returning to full power. However, I think this will be resolved through further tuning.
Application to Racing:
On our tight track the JetPro pipe absolutely dominates the IP2 pipe. I'm able to stay on the pipe for most of the race and simply power out of turns. This allows me to drive a little more sloppy as I have the "juice" to come out hard even without maintaining optimum speed through the corner. In a drag race, I lurch off the line and dominate stock bikes even at 200 lbs. I am able to stay ahead, with a little decrease in mid range, and then pull as I reach a top speed in excess of 2-3mph over most stock bikes.
Additional Info:
The sound of the JetPro is a little quieter than stock I feel. It has a bit of bubbly, gurgling sound. However, it definitely sounds like a performance pipe.
OVERALL COMPARISON:
The pipes are not direct competitors. The decision is simply how you want your bike to perform. If you're looking for acceleration and low/mid range power for tighter tracks, parking lot racing, or to win short drag races, then the JetPro is definitely your pipe. However, if you're looking for mid/top range power and kick for moderately open tracks and longer drag racing then the IP2 pipe is your best option.
One further note, if you don't want to invest in future mods, and are looking for a quick fix to stock performance woes, then you want the JetPro and NOT the IP2 pipe. The IP2 simply cannot work with a stock motor and no carb mods. But if you have the itch to tune your bike heavily with mods, especially with the current rage over the FullCircleStroker Crank (FCS crank) and big bore kits available, then you really need the potential of the IP2 pipe.
sorry I'm not as into this writeup as its the 2nd time I've written it. Hopefully it helps however.
Hahaha... good $hit eldevioso! This helped me make my decision on getting the Jetpro pipe. Havent ran it yet but its on the bike as of last night... We have the same setup except we have different barrels I think. What gearing are you running???
Last edited by Sydeshow MO : 08-31-2004 at 07:08 AM.
Hahaha... good $hit eldevioso! This helped me make my decision on getting the Jetpro pipe. Havent ran it yet but its on the bike as of last night... We have the same setup except we have different barrels I think. What gearing are you running???
I have stock gearing. Haven't counted the teeth, but I'm assuming its the 6/68 or w/e. I hope you have the same results. However, I gotta say, that the track in your parking lot "hercules" video would be ideal for the IP2 from the looks of it . But, all in all, the JetPro will keep you safe no matter what track you're on, in that you'll never be underpowered, unless its long straights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeEngI
think it's great you wrote this up again for everyone although I did have your other post from before PBP was hacked, saved. Too late now.
I did and he said JR WHO??? dont think you guys are to tight????
LOL! That's not all that surprising. I've only talked to him a few times. But, he rides in our LARGE group and wants to sell pipes, so I told him I'd start referring him. Anyway, I guess you gotta start somewhere when building your reputation with somebody Next time, just say the guy on the black CAG that smokes your a$$ every race, lol!
Out of curiosity, we're talking about Mike at the (818) number, correct?
LOL! That's not all that surprising. I've only talked to him a few times. But, he rides in our LARGE group and wants to sell pipes, so I told him I'd start referring him. Anyway, I guess you gotta start somewhere when building your reputation with somebody Next time, just say the guy on the black CAG that smokes your a$$ every race, lol!
Out of curiosity, we're talking about Mike at the (818) number, correct?
yep talked with him this morning and he says non of you sissys can hang with him even on a old crappy Cag..great guy have a pipe on the way.
Well good stuff. He's definitely cool, but full of $hit about his skillz
LOL,Dunno, dont ride with him..talked like he knew how to ride..you can jack him up the next time you meet and ride..tell him Bud from Seattle sent ya...Bud WHO!????
Gotta go pick up some parts from NW Minimoto see ya, Bud.
Found the exact same thing.. MONSTER low end torque/pull from the JetPro, and decent Top End pull, but a very flat midrange.. working on this now. Running Storm/pulse Walbro carb, rocket ket, reeds, perf air filter kit/velocity stack.. Heads ported.
with our stock 59 tooth sprocket the bike is SCARY on bottom end... we just threw a 48 sprocket at it for some top end #'s but we'll be going back to the 59 tooth sproket for some more HAIRY KARRY launches!!
Thanks:
I really appreciate it when someone spends the time to write a well balanced review, was looking some info & advice based on person experience. It has made my decision making easier. Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldevioso
Well, I can't believe I'm writing this up again, since I swore I wouldn't. However, many new faces are asking the same old questions. So here it is all, my experience with my two pipes.
IP2 Race Pipe ~$120-$140 (so I hear)
Installation:
The IP2 pipe was a bit of a pain to install on my FF. I had to remove the front wheel, the seat and the motor entirely to get it on. It also requires the use of a "ball-end" allen wrench for the stock bolts, or the use of "hex head" bolts instead. Some members have noted that the stock silencer simply will not fit as there isn't enough room no matter how you try to install. Therefore, you may have to remove or alter the silencer in some cases. The rear mount on my bike did not align and I was forced to fabricate a spacer of sorts to connect the pipe to the frame. This allowed the pipe to be fastened without unneeded torque which could lead to premature failure of the welds or pipe itself. As the IP2 pipe was too close to my gas tank I was forced to fabricate a spacer for the top mount above gas tank and I had to put rubber and metal washer under all the seat bolts. Only then did I have the clearance to keep the pipe from melting my tank.
Tuning:
The IP2 pipe with stock needle and stock jet, ran like hell. Even with an air filter and velocity stack and the clip on the 5th setting, it simply ran like crap and sometimes wouldn't even get on the pipe at all. However, with the adjustable jet I was able to get the pipe to perform. This was not an easy task as it requires patience and a long trial-and-error process for the beginner to intermediate tuner. Ultimately, however I was able to find the right combination for the best performance my bike could attain with this pipe and my current setup. For me, it was the needle on the 5th setting with the jet ~1.5 to 2 turns out from full tight (lean).
Results:
I gained around 2mph top speed, and there was a undeniable improvement to mid range and top end pull. However, I had a bit of a flat spot off the line. It would take a few seconds for the bike to hit the pipe, as the RPMs only slightly crawled up, but when it did hit the pipe, there was a pronounced KICK and the bike ripped straight through the powerband with no further hesitation. I was able to get to +2 mph over my previous top speed in about 2/3 the distance or possibly a little less. It's worth mentioning that it has been suggested that using either 1) the stock needle instead of triple tapered or 2) self-tapering a stock needle will eliminate the flat spot off the line. However, I did not take the time to try these suggestions.
Application to Racing:
My crew rides on a very large, VERY tight and technical course. There are precious few opportunities to open the bike up for very long. Therefore, bottom end pull is extremely important at our races. When I used the IP2 pipe, I was rarely able to get on the pipe before running out of ground and having to brake. I was underpowered out of almost every single turn and as a result I was unable to compete with the faster riders. However, I'm thoroughly convinced that the mid/top power the IP2 pipe provides would be amazing on an open track with ample opportunities to go WOT (i.e. longer straights and gradual rather than super-tight turns). In drag races, the IP2 pipe would likely leave you a little behind a stock bike from the start, but by about 100 yard mark you would easily be walking away from the crowd.
Additional Info:
The 180 degree design of the IP2 silencer results in your motor being covered with exhaust residue and crap. This is a pain in the butt if you're working on your bike. Therefore, a silencer modification or re-direction is highly advised. I simply cut the silencer off, leaving ~1" of stinger sticking out of expansion chamber. I didn't notice any adverse performance, and the sound is GREAT. Only a hair louder than stock and no where near as obnoxious as the broken stock muffler, and best of all, no MESS on your motor. As for the sound of pipe with silencer, it is quieter than stock as it was designed for indoor racing. However, it does have a nice humm to it.
---------------------
JetPro Pipe ~$145 + shipping
Installation:
The JetPro pipe comes in three spring attached pieces. Therefore it offers flexibility in mounting. I mounted the piece off the header, then attached the second joint that 180s to the rear of the bike. Before attaching the 2nd spring to the 2nd and 3rd pieces, I attached the rear mount. Using the springs in this manner allowed me to move the pipe and shape it to fit my bike correctly. Plus, there are "wonderful" rubber spacers on the rear mount that ensure a nice fit in the rear without hassle and excess torque on the pipe. I had no problems with the installation. Approx. time = 10 mins. However, some members note that it did not fit on their "3rd generation CAGs" or that they had to modify their fairings on particular FF bikes. With the JetPro pipe I have, I don't see how this is the case, but nonetheless this is what HAS been reported. There was plenty of space between the gas tank and the pipe so I was able to remove the spacers that were necessary with IP2 pipe.
Tuning:
I installed the JetPro on my bike after it was tuned for the IP2. Initially the bike bogged right off the line. However, I "richened" the adjustable jet 1/4 turn out and this problem was solved. The bike absolutely ripped off the line but then stuttered through mid range. I richened the bike a little more, ~1/8 turn and there were no problems.
Results:
Extreme acceleration off the line and smooth progression through mid and top range. I retained the same top speed as with the IP2 but there was a noticeable decrease in mid/top end "kick" and pulling power--meaning I got to the same top speed but it took a little longer from mid range acceleration. However, the JetPro absolutely improved the bottom end and lower mid range pull. My bike NEVER had bottom end, and the JetPro almost instantly cured this. It feels as if I lean back on the bike that I could wheelie the **** thing. It is worth noting that I currently have a bit of a hesitation in mid range, not a stutter, but it simply doesn't pull that hard for about 1 second before returning to full power. However, I think this will be resolved through further tuning.
Application to Racing:
On our tight track the JetPro pipe absolutely dominates the IP2 pipe. I'm able to stay on the pipe for most of the race and simply power out of turns. This allows me to drive a little more sloppy as I have the "juice" to come out hard even without maintaining optimum speed through the corner. In a drag race, I lurch off the line and dominate stock bikes even at 200 lbs. I am able to stay ahead, with a little decrease in mid range, and then pull as I reach a top speed in excess of 2-3mph over most stock bikes.
Additional Info:
The sound of the JetPro is a little quieter than stock I feel. It has a bit of bubbly, gurgling sound. However, it definitely sounds like a performance pipe.
OVERALL COMPARISON:
The pipes are not direct competitors. The decision is simply how you want your bike to perform. If you're looking for acceleration and low/mid range power for tighter tracks, parking lot racing, or to win short drag races, then the JetPro is definitely your pipe. However, if you're looking for mid/top range power and kick for moderately open tracks and longer drag Racing then the IP2 pipe is your best option.
One further note, if you don't want to invest in future mods, and are looking for a quick fix to stock performance woes, then you want the JetPro and NOT the IP2 pipe. The IP2 simply cannot work with a stock motor and no carb mods. But if you have the itch to tune your bike heavily with mods, especially with the current rage over the FullCircleStroker Crank (FCS crank) and big bore kits available, then you really need the potential of the IP2 pipe.
sorry I'm not as into this writeup as its the 2nd time I've written it. Hopefully it helps however.
Well, I can't believe I'm writing this up again, since I swore I wouldn't. However, many new faces are asking the same old questions. So here it is all, my experience with my two pipes.
IP2 Race Pipe ~$120-$140 (so I hear)
Installation:
The IP2 pipe was a bit of a pain to install on my FF. I had to remove the front wheel, the seat and the motor entirely to get it on. It also requires the use of a "ball-end" allen wrench for the stock bolts, or the use of "hex head" bolts instead. Some members have noted that the stock silencer simply will not fit as there isn't enough room no matter how you try to install. Therefore, you may have to remove or alter the silencer in some cases. The rear mount on my bike did not align and I was forced to fabricate a spacer of sorts to connect the pipe to the frame. This allowed the pipe to be fastened without unneeded torque which could lead to premature failure of the welds or pipe itself. As the IP2 pipe was too close to my gas tank I was forced to fabricate a spacer for the top mount above gas tank and I had to put rubber and metal washer under all the seat bolts. Only then did I have the clearance to keep the pipe from melting my tank.
Tuning:
The IP2 pipe with stock needle and stock jet, ran like hell. Even with an air filter and velocity stack and the clip on the 5th setting, it simply ran like crap and sometimes wouldn't even get on the pipe at all. However, with the adjustable jet I was able to get the pipe to perform. This was not an easy task as it requires patience and a long trial-and-error process for the beginner to intermediate tuner. Ultimately, however I was able to find the right combination for the best performance my bike could attain with this pipe and my current setup. For me, it was the needle on the 5th setting with the jet ~1.5 to 2 turns out from full tight (lean).
Results:
I gained around 2mph top speed, and there was a undeniable improvement to mid range and top end pull. However, I had a bit of a flat spot off the line. It would take a few seconds for the bike to hit the pipe, as the RPMs only slightly crawled up, but when it did hit the pipe, there was a pronounced KICK and the bike ripped straight through the powerband with no further hesitation. I was able to get to +2 mph over my previous top speed in about 2/3 the distance or possibly a little less. It's worth mentioning that it has been suggested that using either 1) the stock needle instead of triple tapered or 2) self-tapering a stock needle will eliminate the flat spot off the line. However, I did not take the time to try these suggestions.
Application to Racing:
My crew rides on a very large, VERY tight and technical course. There are precious few opportunities to open the bike up for very long. Therefore, bottom end pull is extremely important at our races. When I used the IP2 pipe, I was rarely able to get on the pipe before running out of ground and having to brake. I was underpowered out of almost every single turn and as a result I was unable to compete with the faster riders. However, I'm thoroughly convinced that the mid/top power the IP2 pipe provides would be amazing on an open track with ample opportunities to go WOT (i.e. longer straights and gradual rather than super-tight turns). In drag races, the IP2 pipe would likely leave you a little behind a stock bike from the start, but by about 100 yard mark you would easily be walking away from the crowd.
Additional Info:
The 180 degree design of the IP2 silencer results in your motor being covered with exhaust residue and crap. This is a pain in the butt if you're working on your bike. Therefore, a silencer modification or re-direction is highly advised. I simply cut the silencer off, leaving ~1" of stinger sticking out of expansion chamber. I didn't notice any adverse performance, and the sound is GREAT. Only a hair louder than stock and no where near as obnoxious as the broken stock muffler, and best of all, no MESS on your motor. As for the sound of pipe with silencer, it is quieter than stock as it was designed for indoor racing. However, it does have a nice humm to it.
---------------------
JetPro Pipe ~$145 + shipping
Installation:
The JetPro pipe comes in three spring attached pieces. Therefore it offers flexibility in mounting. I mounted the piece off the header, then attached the second joint that 180s to the rear of the bike. Before attaching the 2nd spring to the 2nd and 3rd pieces, I attached the rear mount. Using the springs in this manner allowed me to move the pipe and shape it to fit my bike correctly. Plus, there are "wonderful" rubber spacers on the rear mount that ensure a nice fit in the rear without hassle and excess torque on the pipe. I had no problems with the installation. Approx. time = 10 mins. However, some members note that it did not fit on their "3rd generation CAGs" or that they had to modify their fairings on particular FF bikes. With the JetPro pipe I have, I don't see how this is the case, but nonetheless this is what HAS been reported. There was plenty of space between the gas tank and the pipe so I was able to remove the spacers that were necessary with IP2 pipe.
Tuning:
I installed the JetPro on my bike after it was tuned for the IP2. Initially the bike bogged right off the line. However, I "richened" the adjustable jet 1/4 turn out and this problem was solved. The bike absolutely ripped off the line but then stuttered through mid range. I richened the bike a little more, ~1/8 turn and there were no problems.
Results:
Extreme acceleration off the line and smooth progression through mid and top range. I retained the same top speed as with the IP2 but there was a noticeable decrease in mid/top end "kick" and pulling power--meaning I got to the same top speed but it took a little longer from mid range acceleration. However, the JetPro absolutely improved the bottom end and lower mid range pull. My bike NEVER had bottom end, and the JetPro almost instantly cured this. It feels as if I lean back on the bike that I could wheelie the **** thing. It is worth noting that I currently have a bit of a hesitation in mid range, not a stutter, but it simply doesn't pull that hard for about 1 second before returning to full power. However, I think this will be resolved through further tuning.
Application to Racing:
On our tight track the JetPro pipe absolutely dominates the IP2 pipe. I'm able to stay on the pipe for most of the race and simply power out of turns. This allows me to drive a little more sloppy as I have the "juice" to come out hard even without maintaining optimum speed through the corner. In a drag race, I lurch off the line and dominate stock bikes even at 200 lbs. I am able to stay ahead, with a little decrease in mid range, and then pull as I reach a top speed in excess of 2-3mph over most stock bikes.
Additional Info:
The sound of the JetPro is a little quieter than stock I feel. It has a bit of bubbly, gurgling sound. However, it definitely sounds like a performance pipe.
OVERALL COMPARISON:
The pipes are not direct competitors. The decision is simply how you want your bike to perform. If you're looking for acceleration and low/mid range power for tighter tracks, parking lot racing, or to win short drag races, then the JetPro is definitely your pipe. However, if you're looking for mid/top range power and kick for moderately open tracks and longer drag racing then the IP2 pipe is your best option.
One further note, if you don't want to invest in future mods, and are looking for a quick fix to stock performance woes, then you want the JetPro and NOT the IP2 pipe. The IP2 simply cannot work with a stock motor and no carb mods. But if you have the itch to tune your bike heavily with mods, especially with the current rage over the FullCircleStroker Crank (FCS crank) and big bore kits available, then you really need the potential of the IP2 pipe.
sorry I'm not as into this writeup as its the 2nd time I've written it. Hopefully it helps however.
I have the jet pro with pbu big bore sleeper kit,rocket key,stack and filter,ada reed,hp clutch springs.I am trying to tune carb.I have 66 main jet in now.Needle clip at th 5th position.Bike will not rev out at high rpms. Could it be my gearing?Or whats the best main jet size for my set up?Any help apreciated...
Also loose the Jet Pro pipe!!! That thing robs your motor from RPM's Big time! Dont believe me? Look at all the pipes I have been thru. Like Moto said run a 72 jet! Im now using the 3rd pipe from the top (Elite 11) modified to fit a Cag. Way more top end than the IP2 and a ton more over the Jetpro! Pricey but worth every cent! You can opt for the Fatty pipe PBU carries. It has way more bottom end out of the corner then the Elite 11 and IP2 and has the same top end power as an IP2 if not more. Top end still cant touch the Elite 11 though!
Last edited by Sydeshow MO : 04-23-2005 at 03:02 AM.
JetPro vs. IP2 (a first hand comparison) Vol. 2.0 
rubber spacers on the rear mount that ensure a nice fit in the rear without hassle and excess torque on the pipe. I had no problems with the installation. Approx. time = 10 mins. However, some members note that it did not fit on their "3rd generation CAGs" or that they had to modify their fairings on particular FF bikes. With the JetPro pipe I have, I don't see how this is the case, but nonetheless this is what HAS been reported. There was plenty of space between the gas tank and the pipe so I was able to remove the spacers that were necessary with IP2 pipe.
