add salt water and forget it, the ship building industry has to be very careful
the main reason i avoid stainless and aluminium is when i do rigging it is illegal for me to use an aluminium cable ferral with stainless wire rope, law requires a copper ferral. for me it is liability if i make a cable assemble out of stainless, use an aluminium cable ferral and it fails, well people would get seriously hurt, probally kill some people, and i would be held for involentary manslaughter, criminal negligence, all the fun stuff.
pic is from private function, each truss is 30' and aprox 1200lbs with its rigging
You should all know that the corrosion from dissimilar metals will never be a problem. It's a CAG, we'll all be taking them apart every couple of days to fix crap. Corrsion doesn't stand a chance.
You should all know that the corrosion from dissimilar metals will never be a problem. It's a CAG, we'll all be taking them apart every couple of days to fix crap. Corrsion doesn't stand a chance.
Life's a tradeoff. Everybody knows that the aluminum fasteners strip and/or break off. The aluminum axle bolts on the C1 strip because of outward and upward pressure on the bolt when they are removed or put back on and the alloy material is just not strong enough to prevent it. This can easily happen even when care is taken. This is not slamming the C1, it is just an observation and it is their choice of fasteners, although the reverse because they are using aluminum fasteners on steel. The best alternative is to inspect and clean periodically as required. Just about anybody familiar with the characteristics of dissimilar metals and compounds is aware of the inherent need to be watchful of this. I remember many years ago seeing the effects of steel fasteners used on aluminum lifeboats in a salt water environment and just had to replace all of my car rims because of salt corrosion while up north. As I now replace the chrome plated steel rims with aluminum rims, I will have to address the problem of the wheel lugs as well.
Last edited by scooterteq : 01-04-2005 at 01:22 PM.
Not to bust your chops badazz, but from what I understand, the SHO/Banshee would have to race in the open class at most tracks (cuz it's 50cc?), so how would it stand up to other open class pb's (even with modifications)?
I like the bike and would buy one, but not if the other open class bikes are going to eat it's lunch (even if they do cost 2-5 times as much). Of course if I bought it without no intention of using it competatively (or if it is in fact, competitive), then the above wouldn't matter.
Mike
OK, well having a class to race in is a concern of mine and i will not buy a product that i'm gonna get my head pounded in if/when i decide to take it to the track.
I guess I'll do some deeper reasearch at serpa and see whats up..
The more I read, the more a USED euro bike seems the way to go..
Btw, what would i be running against in "open" class?
Open class....hmmm, just assume you'll be racing against bikes that have AT LEAST 12hp. The majority of the open class guys run 12 hp+ bikes. We're talking about 5 port, 50cc motors, malossi or BZM heads, race cranks, race pipes, huge carbs, etc etc.
Since the banshee is based on a polini engine, I would assume some of the parts might work to make the banshee as fast as the open bikes, but then again, the open class bikes have far superior frames.
Pray that whatever race organization you'll be a part of, has a watercooled chinese bike class, where you will race against other banshee's or C1's. C1's are allowed to race in our proddy/super proddy classes here in Socal, but every race organization has their own set of rules. I doubt if they'd let the banshee's race in the proddy/super proddy class because its a 5 port/50cc bike with a 17.5mm carb. Now if they limit the bike to a 14mm carb, maybe they'd allow it in super proddy. I'm not sure...don't quote me on that.
If it were up to me, I'd say let the banshee's race against the superproddy's. Just keep the carb set to 14mm and whatever stock head and crank thats on the bike. A lot of the superproddy guys I race, have at least 8.5-11hp bikes. Its more about rider skill anyhow.
-E
Quote:
Originally Posted by whome
OK, well having a class to race in is a concern of mine and i will not buy a product that i'm gonna get my head pounded in if/when i decide to take it to the track.
I guess I'll do some deeper reasearch at serpa and see whats up..
The more I read, the more a USED euro bike seems the way to go..
Btw, what would i be running against in "open" class?
yup that bike will be in open class for sure, our Proddy class is limited to 14mm and 40cc. With that said, w/ this bike running about 10HP where the OPEN 40cc bikes are 12-14hp and the 50cc open bikes are 13+hp....u'll be rocking the back row for a while.
Unless you're a part of PSWS racing and racing cags in the open class lol. Now those guys have balls. But again, the track at rialto is really short so they can get away with it.
If they were to put 14mm dellorto carbs on the banshee, I would say, let them race against us proddy/super proddy guys. In our class, there's a lot of guys running 8-10hp bikes. I figure it's fair for the banshee's to run us if they have 14mm carbs.
Youre right though...Open 40cc, and Open 50cc bikes run really high hp numbers. The banshee doesnt stand a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsigone
yup that bike will be in open class for sure, our Proddy class is limited to 14mm and 40cc. With that said, w/ this bike running about 10HP where the OPEN 40cc bikes are 12-14hp and the 50cc open bikes are 13+hp....u'll be rocking the back row for a while.
the PSWS cag is in a league of its own.....hands down. Anyone who seen this bike run and the rider... OMG it's quick.... Lets jus say, a 2.5 AC cag with mods, running and passing superproddy's. Everything from blatas to RR to DMs. Bike is QUICK. It helps to be building 2t scooter motors for 30+ yrs.
I'm not sure Josiah will fly w/ the 50cc in the proddy, I had to nearly twist his arm to let the C1's run w/ the proddy's rather then stick it in the open class. I used the blata Elite 13a rule for the C1. Since the E13a has a 5 port head but 14mm carb and runs proddy we were able to run in the same class.
I highly doubt I'll see any of these GP clones on the tracks here, too high dollar for a clone bike that will need upgrades to get it up to par w/ the rest of the field.
Yeah I was there for the november race and saw their cags smoke even the Open class guys.
So the 13 has a 5 port? I had no idea. The C1 belongs with us in the proddy class.
I would think we'd see some banshees out there this year. They're not that much more than the C1's, and are supposedly faster. Whether it belongs in the proddy or superproddy class is up to the race directors. I wouldn't mind seeing some in the proddy class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsigone
the PSWS cag is in a league of its own.....hands down. Anyone who seen this bike run and the rider... OMG it's quick.... Lets jus say, a 2.5 AC cag with mods, running and passing superproddy's. Everything from blatas to RR to DMs. Bike is QUICK. It helps to be building 2t scooter motors for 30+ yrs.
I'm not sure Josiah will fly w/ the 50cc in the proddy, I had to nearly twist his arm to let the C1's run w/ the proddy's rather then stick it in the open class. I used the blata Elite 13a rule for the C1. Since the E13a has a 5 port head but 14mm carb and runs proddy we were able to run in the same class.
I highly doubt I'll see any of these GP clones on the tracks here, too high dollar for a clone bike that will need upgrades to get it up to par w/ the rest of the field.
yup that bike will be in open class for sure, our Proddy class is limited to 14mm and 40cc. With that said, w/ this bike running about 10HP where the OPEN 40cc bikes are 12-14hp and the 50cc open bikes are 13+hp....u'll be rocking the back row for a while. sad huh
It is still to soon to judge in what class the SHO will finally end up. What yu see is Version I. First, we have identified the problem of the late engagement of the clutch as simply due to the lining material, not the shoe itself, and the spring. If an adequate lining material cannot be found at the factory level becasue of local availability and the spring stiffened, both as stock, it will easy enough to upgrade those components only at low cost. The engine itself has ample power and the stock carb is a well made 18.5mm and no change is anticipated. The dyno results were based on testing on an 800 lb chassis drum and yielded 9.7HP. In reality, with a proper sized drum for a vehicle of this size, about 200 lbs, the dyno operator stated it should yield over one additional HP as stock. It is not easy to get the ideal test conditions or equipment and to a certain extent we have to rely on the knowledge of a skilled operator. We are examining all other elements of the design including the engine itself, the cylinder, piston, rod, squish compression, reed box, etc. to look at possible methods of improvement and will subject these elements, including the chromed cylinder, to destructive testing. When we have all elements of the drive train understood and modified to our satisfaction we will make a final analysis of the exhaust system to determine if there is room for improvement of the pipe. There is no need for chassis improvement and this has already been stated numerous times by people who have now seen them first hand. Nonetheless, we are considering the possibility of using a detachable rear swingarm in order to facilitate tire changes and other quick maintenance that may be required in the field. We feel that we have one hell of a machine to start with and that attention to the aforesaid items will get us where we want to be quickly, almost entirely as stock. Our objective is 14HP.
Last edited by scooterteq : 01-05-2005 at 09:01 AM.
It is still to soon to judge in what class the SHO will finally end up.
I can tell you that this bike will be OPEN class no matter much or little power it makes, rules are rules, 50cc and 18.5 carb = Open class.
The C1 brought a debate over what class it should fall into. The only reason that was in debate cuz it's 40cc and 5 port w/ a 14mm carb. Which in most eye sees it as a WC Elite 13A. So the question was, where do the E13a run in that organization. If it runs in proddy class then the C1 runs next to it, if it runs open class due to the 5 port head, then the C1 runs open. There seems to be a 40% chance ur local group will place the C1 in proddy class. I'm lucky I'm in that 40%.
The GP clone will not have any backing to be placed in the Proddy class what so ever. So this 10hp bike will be in w/ the big boys running 13+ HP. Like I said long time ago when this bike was first talked about, it's gonna take time and most importantly $$ to get this bike up to par to run in the class it was designed for. But at what point is it smart enough to get a euro bike that won't be sucking in all this $$? I should know, I had to do that w/ the C1. I spent ALOT of time and $$ on that bike.
Yes i understand most people out there won't even see the track, but there are others that race due to local laws not allowing PB anywhere else but the track. And these people will be on the grid w/ bikes that are $3300+ and making 3-6 more HP then the GP clone.
yep for us it would run with our 14 hp 40cc 5 port Bi-Zeta BMS and 40cc 5 port Malossi ZPF
For the non racers the bike is a good starting point. For any intending to race I would look for a used Euro. Especially since I bought my open class used ZPF for $850 to my door with over $300 spares/tools included.
I remember when I first tried out a GRC GP. The tires were warm from a previous rider. I went the first lap getting used to the handeling. Next lap I started to push it to about 60 percent race level. After the third turn I hi-sided the bike end over end. Got back on the bike and finished the lap. My opinion on the bike was handeling far below the level I felt to be competative.
Try out numerous models and find out what works for you.
Last edited by NWminiMoto-M : 01-05-2005 at 02:45 PM.
I can tell you that this bike will be OPEN class no matter much or little power it makes, rules are rules, 50cc and 18.5 carb = Open class.
The C1 brought a debate over what class it should fall into. The only reason that was in debate cuz it's 40cc and 5 port w/ a 14mm carb. Which in most eye sees it as a WC Elite 13A. So the question was, where do the E13a run in that organization. If it runs in proddy class then the C1 runs next to it, if it runs open class due to the 5 port head, then the C1 runs open. There seems to be a 40% chance ur local group will place the C1 in proddy class. I'm lucky I'm in that 40%.
The GP clone will not have any backing to be placed in the Proddy class what so ever. So this 10hp bike will be in w/ the big boys running 13+ HP. Like I said long time ago when this bike was first talked about, it's gonna take time and most importantly $$ to get this bike up to par to run in the class it was designed for. But at what point is it smart enough to get a euro bike that won't be sucking in all this $$? I should know, I had to do that w/ the C1. I spent ALOT of time and $$ on that bike.
Yes i understand most people out there won't even see the track, but there are others that race due to local laws not allowing PB anywhere else but the track. And these people will be on the grid w/ bikes that are $3300+ and making 3-6 more HP then the GP clone.
Well said bro....
I purchased a FF 49 Cag a few weeks ago and was caught up in a HP war with my bro's.
Somehow i stumbled across the Banshee SHO and was sold once i seen Jimmers video.....
But then I began to do some deep research and because of the CC's being 49/50 this bike would run with the big dawgs and get it's head kicked in doing so.
The cylinder piston setup on these are at a real disadvantage when compared to the polini motors.
If all you wanna do is terrorize the hood then these are a nice/Cheap investment.
But if you EVER want to race at with an organized group be prepared to be the back marker.
I think im gonna get a used C1 with mods already done, try that for a while and if i find the racing to be fullfilling i will purchase a used italian bike.
With the C1 i can learn from others mistakes and proven improvments.
As of now there is no class for the sho or much info on how to improve them.
ur n2o setup will cost as much as the bike...LOL
but no n2o is allowed in 99% of the race classes. Plus iduno if I'd want something moving at 14-15k RPM blowing up under my nuts
