Any thoughts on whether a Polini race crank will fit the B-SHO without modifications? A stuffed crank will add power and get rid of the taper clutch shaft...
I would say, it depends on how the case was built. If the cases are the same, then you should be able to fit a polini race crank in with no problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachV
Any thoughts on whether a Polini race crank will fit the B-SHO without modifications? A stuffed crank will add power and get rid of the taper clutch shaft...
DCminimoto is selling the ZPF 15hp top-end to fit the B-SHO. So, if the race crank fits, I'm good to go!
-kb
top end of the motor should be bolt on, the head should be the same shape and size as the polini. U can get the ZPF head kit or a Molasi head kit to fit on the fitty. But what u should understand is that, they changed the crank, the crank shaft could be a larger diameter then a polini shaft because of the tappered clutch end. So in doing so the case if different. If your already blowing this much $$$ on the head kit and race shaft, why not get a complete 50cc motor w/ the BZM race prepaired package for $1100 and comes with eveything minus the carby....I mean ur gonna spend 3-400 on the head kit and plus $130-150 on the race crank. Might as well get the real deal and stock f-ing around w/ china parts and tolerance.
why would you want to do this anyway the chineese have copied the Series I case anyway so to make it competive you would need to get a polini Series II case to put the head kit and crank in witch doesan't make any cents any way. just buy a polini motor {just my .02}
Wow, they copied the series I case? Are you sure? How the heck are they getting over 9 hp with that case? Something must be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteknight
why would you want to do this anyway the chineese have copied the Series I case anyway so to make it competive you would need to get a polini Series II case to put the head kit and crank in witch doesan't make any cents any way. just buy a polini motor {just my .02}
is it me...wasn't the series 1 polini motor air cooled. Last I checked this was a water cooled motor. Hence Series 2. And from what scooter said it's 49.x cc
there is nothing stoping someone who doesn't know from building a w/c setup on a series I case the motor will run it will just have a lower compression ratio than the series II caes with the same setup. so you will stil be able to create hp # greater than 7 but still will not be competive.
top end of the motor should be bolt on, the head should be the same shape and size as the polini. U can get the ZPF head kit or a Molasi head kit to fit on the fitty. But what u should understand is that, they changed the crank, the crank shaft could be a larger diameter then a polini shaft because of the tappered clutch end. So in doing so the case if different. If your already blowing this much $$$ on the head kit and race shaft, why not get a complete 50cc motor w/ the BZM race prepaired package for $1100 and comes with eveything minus the carby....I mean ur gonna spend 3-400 on the head kit and plus $130-150 on the race crank. Might as well get the real deal and stock f-ing around w/ china parts and tolerance.
The motor is $1100 and I still won't have a bike.
A DM Midi GP rolling chassis is $2300 + $1100 = $3400.
Using list prices:
The B-SHO is $799 + $400 Head + $140 Crank + $100 reed block/intake kit = Less than $1500.
I don't want a used bike (there aren't any for sale in Dallas anyway).
The Crank bearings for the B-SHO and the real PSII motor are the same size so there is a good chance that the crank will fit. Once the top-end and crank are replaced, all that you have left is the crankcase itself, which shouldn't affect performace. If it does, you can get a new PSII case for around $150 and you total layout is still less than $1600. That's about the same as a new 910s that I can't fit on. So, even if the total layout is about $1600, you should have at least a 13hp-14+hp for your trouble (stock bike is just under 11hp + engine upgrades + whatever you can get out of pipe/carb upgrades.)
Soooo, 13hp-14+hp bike that is new and $2000 cheaper than a "real" pocketbike is worth a shot to me...
That's exactly what I thought. No way it could be a series one case. All watercooled polini motors have series II cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsigone
is it me...wasn't the series 1 polini motor air cooled. Last I checked this was a water cooled motor. Hence Series 2. And from what scooter said it's 49.x cc
You're figures are right, but you forgot the BZM/Zocchi Race Pipe. You won't get the benefit of all the above without that... The pipe on the Banshee SHO is wrong for a 50cc.
Right. Still need a good pipe...
I see jsig's point though.
Buy GP Copy and toss motor = $799 rolling chassis.
Buy BZM 50cc motor = $1100
New 15HP bike for 1899 (not including the pipe) still not that bad. In fact, that's only a $300 premium for the Bi-zeta motor. Hmmm...
The motor is $1100 and I still won't have a bike.
A DM Midi GP rolling chassis is $2300 + $1100 = $3400.
Using list prices:
The B-SHO is $799 + $400 Head + $140 Crank + $100 reed block/intake kit = Less than $1500.
I don't want a used bike (there aren't any for sale in Dallas anyway).
The Crank bearings for the B-SHO and the real PSII motor are the same size so there is a good chance that the crank will fit. Once the top-end and crank are replaced, all that you have left is the crankcase itself, which shouldn't affect performace. If it does, you can get a new PSII case for around $150 and you total layout is still less than $1600. That's about the same as a new 910s that I can't fit on. So, even if the total layout is about $1600, you should have at least a 13hp-14+hp for your trouble (stock bike is just under 11hp + engine upgrades + whatever you can get out of pipe/carb upgrades.)
Soooo, 13hp-14+hp bike that is new and $2000 cheaper than a "real" pocketbike is worth a shot to me...
so ok, u can get a 50cc open GRC RR NEW for like 3300 bucks, lets add the amount it would take to build up a SHO
800 bike
400 head kit
130 race crank
40 crankshaft bearings (polini) more for BZM bearings
140 polini series 2 case
100 reed block (not sure if its needed but u listed it)
--------
$1610
Now lets add stuff u havn't accounted for
150 3 shoe zocchi clush
30 clutch drum (min upgrade.)
75 PMT front tire T41
80 PMT rear tire T41
150 REAL delortto 17.5 carby
30 4-5 jets for tunablity
50 steering damper
-------
$565 in bolt ons
Grand total $2175 + misc lil parts, shipping and ur labor
So now ur near $2200 for a bike that has an obsolete frame technology and is heavier then the rest of the field u'll be racing agaist cuz it uses cheaper and denser materail. So not only will they corner better but they have better power to weight ratio.
Thats ALOT of money for a clone bike. I didn't even add spare parts suck as extra clutchs, sprockets and pinion.
I wasn't counting bolt-on's and consumables because you have to buy that for any bike. I hear that the GP chassis is not that good, but that may just be rider preference. The GRC RR is listed at 55lbs vs 61 for the B-SHO. It wouldn't make any sense if you have a good supply of used bikes from people you trust, but all that I see are 910's, real GP's and a few RSR's and those are usually around 10hp for ~$1500 and have to be mailed 1500 miles...
Just trying to work with my perceived options...
I also don't have to spend it all at once. I can upgrade during the season as parts wear out. Even Euro bikes get top-end rebuilds/replacements after a season of racing...
but in this case u don't start w/ those parts as if u bought a euro so u have to upgrade those parts rather the euro guys see thems as spare parts.
All the secondary parts are needed not just a strong motor. The motor means nothing if the clutch doesn't grab, if you can't take a turn at desired speed cus china tires are junk, that u dont' have a damper and something twitches the bike in the turn causing u to go highside at 40+ MPH. (I know from expience on that part, thats why I got a damper now). My point, all these makes the bike what is it, everything from a clutch spring to the frame, every part makes a difference and must work together to have a good bike. Just because it's a good bike doens't mean it will be fast. Then u have to throw reliablity in there too.
I have about $1000 in my C1 total and even I think thats too much, but thats what I had to put to make the bike perform at a level to keep up and beat the superproddy's I race agaist. I've done the whole transformation thing from stock to modded and it really sucks. Having all ur friends riding while ur left in the pits wrenchin on the bike or trying to debug this prob. I spent countless days at the track paying for the day to ride and not even ride. I'm there to debug all this lil crappy thing I got from china. And then see if it works. Anyone from SD that rides w/ me knows this.
but in this case u don't start w/ those parts as if u bought a euro so u have to upgrade those parts rather the euro guys see thems as spare parts.
All the secondary parts are needed not just a strong motor. The motor means nothing if the clutch doesn't grab, if you can't take a turn at desired speed cus china tires are junk, that u dont' have a damper and something twitches the bike in the turn causing u to go highside at 40+ MPH. (I know from expience on that part, thats why I got a damper now). My point, all these makes the bike what is it, everything from a clutch spring to the frame, every part makes a difference and must work together to have a good bike. Just because it's a good bike doens't mean it will be fast. Then u have to throw reliablity in there too..
I would have to buy clutches and a damper anyway. A new Euro bike would come with good tires though. I'm not trying to say that Chinese bikes are in any way better that Euro bikes (other that bang for buck). The quality of a Euro bike is far superior, but for now a cheap, fast bike is what I need. Even if I left the B-SHO stock, I would be happy. Everything else is a maybe...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsigone
I have about $1000 in my C1 total and even I think thats too much, but thats what I had to put to make the bike perform at a level to keep up and beat the superproddy's I race agaist. I've done the whole transformation thing from stock to modded and it really sucks. Having all ur friends riding while ur left in the pits wrenchin on the bike or trying to debug this prob. I spent countless days at the track paying for the day to ride and not even ride. I'm there to debug all this lil crappy thing I got from china. And then see if it works. Anyone from SD that rides w/ me knows this.
I think that the C1 had a lot more problems out of the box than the B-SHO does and you were on the bleeding edge of C1 technology when you got your bike.
We only have two race classes here in Texas:
Pocketbike = Cags
Super Pocketbike = Everything else
By the time our race scene matures and grows enougth to have more classes, I'm sure that I'll have a Euro bike too...
it's still to early to tell if th SHO has probs or not...... but major downside is that crank and clutch IMO. We'll see how the rest of the bike is with time.
it's still to early to tell if th SHO has probs or not...... but major downside is that crank and clutch IMO. We'll see how the rest of the bike is with time.
Exactly. That's how this whole thread got started.
DCMM has some three-shoe Zoochis on their site that are on the way...
The pipe on the Banshee SHO is wrong for a 50cc.
