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Old 06-28-2005   #201
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Actually the group I ride with you will usually find 35+ riders, so riding alone is doubtful. Like I have said before about the sport side of it is very few of the replica owners go to the track. I'll also repeat why not design your own chassis? What's stoping you?

Think about this
Karma

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Old 06-28-2005   #202
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Believe Me If I Had The Time I Would Love To, Like Frank Does ,but I Work 12hr Days And I Am Lucky To Get 5hrs Of Sleep A Night During The Week! Lets Put It This Way It Is Much Easier To SenD A Bike That We Know Performs To China And Have Them Copy It!
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Old 06-28-2005   #203
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Love to Chat

Sorry, didn't mean to strike a bad note here....Perhaps its best for us all to wait and see what happens....there will be lots of opinions and all very respectable and I'm sure well meaning....Without facts, most of us are simply armchair generals offering our best opinion to what we see and understand at the time. ....Perhaps whats really happening is far different than anyone may guess or suppose....
Hope this finds you well....Signing out of this particular thread...Live long and prosper..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Obpr
Patent opinion is what is you get before applying for a patent for an invention. To make sure your not wasting a lot of money applying for something that already has a patent. It has nothing to do with infringing someone else's already existing patent.

Are you planning to pay DM royalties for their designs? Basically you are theives, you aren't even stealing from a large company, I'd be amazed if DM had more then 10 employee's. It's a small business you are hurting all in the name of making a quick buck.
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Old 06-28-2005   #204
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Quote:
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C'mon Chris, respectfully, if you called a factory here in the US and asked them "gee, are you guys building something for Bill or Bob...would they tell you?"
china factories care about money. If they have a product to sell they will sell it to whomever if they have cash. Same thing that happened with scooterteq and everyone else bringing in the banshee. Im not saying the dm copy is not being built i think it would be pretty cool im just kinda iffy about any other factory out there.
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Old 06-28-2005   #205
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Believe Me Chris It's Being Built As They Have Had The Real Dm For Awhile Now! You Know The People We Deal With So It's Not A Secret! They Will Not Release Any Info To Anyone Untill The Prototypes Are Done!
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Old 06-28-2005   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROMUNCHER
Believe Me Chris It's Being Built As They Have Had The Real Dm For Awhile Now! You Know The People We Deal With So It's Not A Secret! They Will Not Release Any Info To Anyone Untill The Prototypes Are Done!
Just asking so you guys say that you guys will be the only one getting these DM copy? right. Well just to let you guys know China all about the money and once the bike is out you guys will not be the only one selling it. So you better hope the factory dont sell to other's. thats all. my $0.02

Good luck...
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Old 06-28-2005   #207
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Quote:
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Believe Me Chris It's Being Built As They Have Had The Real Dm For Awhile Now!
Those dudes from China are probably just taking turns riding the hell out that DM and having too much fun ...to want to tear it down...lol
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Old 06-28-2005   #208
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I'm struggling to find a thread on here that opposed the the copying of the Pollini 911 or the Blata B1.

So why all the hoo haa about DM being copied? Or have I missed something?
That is probably becasue they are knocking off old, outdated, poor designed bikes.

So far in the history of pocketbikes in this country there have been a couple of "flops", they are, in no particular order-
-The Polini 911
-The GRC "GP"
-The Blata Origami

None of which are brought into the country anymore (except for the knockoffs of course). And all of which were too heavy, too stiff, and poor handling, when compared to the other brands and chassis types such as the GRC RSR & RR, obviously the DMs, and several of the Polini chassiss such as the GP3 and the "Steel" chassis.

Ultimately that is why no one is losing any sleep over those. Now on the other hand, the DM chassis is very much a current chassis with several patented goodies and is currently probably the best selling "euro" bike on the market, and quite possibly the best chassis built along with the RR and the Giannini's, which I am sure are next in the crosshairs.

Now I will admit that business and numbers of racers have grown (although I have yet to see the w/c China bikes at our track, just Cags), but I personally condemn the knockoffs of any of the current bikes be it DM, GRC, Giannini, BMS, etc. These are all very small companies that can harldy afford to lose any of their annual sales to the Chinese bikes, all of these companies make less than 500 bikes a year, and are small family owned businesses, but alas, as said before, most (if not all) of the importers could give a rats *** about the sport, just the money. If they were unable to profit from the sport, they would move on to something else in a matter of days.
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Old 06-28-2005   #209
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1 Question ,are You Guys 100% Positive That The Euro Companies Dont Get Some Of There Parts From China (hint Hint) I Have An Inside Anwser To This One But I Want To Hear Everyones Side Of The Story!
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Old 06-28-2005   #210
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I wouldnt say that the gp is a flop.I race one and I have no problem keeping up with and passing the other brands.Riders didnt like them because they are to stiff.I like the stiffer frame and they feel more intouch with the track.Its all what you like.My 2 cents.I feel the china copies are great to get in to the sport with.Thats how I started .But they just plain lack the quality of a Italian bike.You get what you pay for.I own 2 cags and 2 C1s and my GRC GP.My son rides the C1s and there great for him.But I Have to work on the dam thing all the time.I dont really have to mess with the GP.LIke I said you r paying for performance and quality.
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Old 06-28-2005   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROMUNCHER
1 Question ,are You Guys 100% Positive That The Euro Companies Dont Get Some Of There Parts From China (hint Hint) I Have An Inside Anwser To This One But I Want To Hear Everyones Side Of The Story!
What is the relavence of that? The point is not where the parts come from, or who initially manufactures them, its who did all the footwork, payed for all the r&d, took the time and expense building prototype after prototype until it was right.

Sourcing parts like coils or chain or whatever out of China is no different than sourcing them from any other country, but again, its crap to steal the latest technology (as well as illegal) knock it off and do that cheaply, and then tell everyone that this POS "replica" is just as good as the original.

GoPed was actually succesful in stopping dozens of containers of knockoff scooters from getting into the country, (and half the parts are manufactured in Asia) and had quite literally bankrupted the twits that had them sourced, tooled up, and tryed to bring them in.

BBR has done the same, they actually have a legal team that only pursues importers of ripoff BBR parts.

If you drive a Ford, there is a great chance it was built in Mexico, if you drive a Toyota pickup (a Japanese truck) it is very likely it was made in California.

It does not matter if China built 9/10 of DM or GRC bikes, DM or GRC or BMS or whoever, payed for the tooling, the materials and still (most importantly) did all the R&D. So, so what if any or all the parts are made there, you guys are still stealing the latest, state of the art frame design, you put nothing into it except buying a real DM and shipping it to a plant, plus some capitol. People like you and the others involved in this are ONLY interested in sports like this because you can exploit the masses to make a quick buck and then move on to the next big thing.

Blah blah blah, it really doesnt matter since all you're going to do is just sit there and justify in your feeble greedy little minds why it's OK to do stuff like this, you could give two sh!ts about the sport, and you won't even give that when you arent making any money at it, stop trying to justify your actions, there are people out there that will buy them, theres no doubt about that, but you and your cronies will be sure to be remembered for a long time by the people that truly love the sport, as greedy a$$holes just here long enough to make a quick buck at the expense of small hard working companies. And that is the bottom line, so stop trying to justify it, just accept that you are all greedy pricks, and do your thing, we won't miss you next season when you have moved on to your next exploitation.
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Old 06-28-2005   #212
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so it is ok for dm ,grc or who ever to get people in china (that make a dollar a day) to make there parts , but it is a crime for us to do the same! all we are doing is cutting out the middle man (which brings the price down ALOT) i understand what demon is saying and alot of it is true but lets face it competition is not a bad thing ask bill gates!
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Old 06-28-2005   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROMUNCHER
so it is ok for dm ,grc or who ever to get people in china (that make a dollar a day) to make there parts , but it is a crime for us to do the same! all we are doing is cutting out the middle man (which brings the price down ALOT) i understand what demon is saying and alot of it is true but lets face it competition is not a bad thing ask bill gates!
The point here is not human rights, it is intellectual property rights, and patent laws. You guys are not just cutting out the middle man, you are stealing someone elses hard work and expensive R&D. The only way you wouldent be is to design your own frame and motor, not steal someone else's.
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Old 06-28-2005   #214
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you guys are killing me.lol
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Old 06-29-2005   #215
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demonspit- I see your point in this but just realize that alot of people dont like china quality products and some after buying a china bike will go after the real thing. I do agree with you on some aspects of spending lots of time on r&d and having somone rip it off. I use to work for cisco systems and made some software for network troubleshooting and before i quit guess who took the software and started selling it.

Hackmunch-I think it will be cool to see this bike regardless so keep us all posted
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Old 06-29-2005   #216
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I have been to CHINA many many times, I am personal Friends with the owner of the factory that makes the C1. Myself and Business partner were the ONLY white guys at the BIG Boss wedding...

I am also very close with the factories Banshee (GRC copy ) and the Dream Bike (Polini 910 S) copy

We have the second C1 EVER MADE and also got 2 of the first 100 to be shipped of the Dream Bike... ( we dont like the banshee - but have seen MANY at our race track )

and YES there is a GP3 Reverse on the the way...

BUT

.. NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT THE " DM " copy....

I have even had a few factories and trading companies ask me about who is making it... ( becuase alot of people are asking about it - from the USA )

BEWARE,... dont hand your money over to ANYONE.. till you have seen one..

It could just be a LOAD of BS..

ALL THE " EARLY " model CHINESE BIKES were crap... but now both the C1 and Dreambike are now pretty good...


I have a video of our PR-40W ( PARTLY WORKED - chinese bike ) RACING A REAL " DM "

THE SAME SPEED

just my 3 cents worth
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Old 06-29-2005   #217
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like i said before there is an agreement with the factory to not inform anyone untill the prototypes are done and approved for production, this was part of the deal from the beginning!
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Old 06-29-2005   #218
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I will buy a euro eventually and I agree with demon even tho I love China stuff for "now" because Iam a cheap bastard.
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Old 06-29-2005   #219
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Nitro

If you think you will be the ONLY one that will get this bike then...

YOU HAVE ANOTHER THING COMMING !!!

ALL the chinese factories are interested in VOLUME...

And the C1 has a FEW more improvements on the WAY !!

Like a FULL ALLOY FRAME in the next month

The standard C1 is about the SAME SPEED as the REAL DM ..

I will post a video to show them racing
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Old 06-29-2005   #220
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Quote:
I will buy a euro eventually and I agree with demon even tho I love China stuff for "now" because Iam a cheap bastard.
WORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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