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Horsepower blata elite 14 wrs

31K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  rasputin 
#1 ·
I need more horsepower in my blata elite 14 wrs, Somebody knows how to get it? sorry about my english, im spanish.
 
#2 ·
Hi Javi!

Glad to see you around...
This guy does need really help. He´s a real fast rider but his ride is killing him and his mechanic patience, there´s one trouble after another.
In the dyno test the bike developed barely 9hp and is a pain to find the correct carb setting. Last weekend in a local race the bike seemed fine using a chinese barrel, but not that good is suposed to perform a 12cv tuned engine.
Thanks guys, we know in the Uk these bikes are a bunch and you´ve found the right way.

Cheers
 
#17 ·
The wrs already has the intake ported from blata, at least mine came like that. The only problem that hasnt been fixed from what i can see is the reed lift issue. i added a 10mm spacer to help with this and also to stop the boost port from being blocked by the reed since its covered with the original configuration.

My cylinder has the 11D stamp.
 
#6 ·
my posting was a little mistakable. i did not use an engine dyno, i used an "amerschlaeger p4" scooter dyno (simulates a load of 95kg).
any "scooter dyno" is good for minibikes. do NOT use a large motorcycle dyno, they'll just wreck the clutch, as the simulated load is too large (150-200 kg).

i don't know the code of the top end. it's a 2006 wrs engine.

r
 
#7 ·
rasputin i'm wondering if you fitted the PHVB carb in that WRS.. is that right?
Did you know if are any differences between the WRS engine and the B1 Kit engine? i have one origami engine in my elite 13, it's a b1 kit engine because it has the PHVB intake but i don't know if has the claimed 15hp or if it's different than the WRS engine.


PD:the bike also have the WRS exhaust and crank
 
#8 ·
the 06 wrs engine has been redesigned from the previous years. thr B1 engine is NOT the same as the WRS engine. the new wrs engine has a flat top piston and a race stuffed crank.the cylinder and head is a complete redesign from the old. My WRS stock came with a 17.5 carb. I had the worst time tuning that carb and getting the bike to run right. I fitted it with a 19mil dellorto carb phbg.. after adjusting the needle and putting in a 83 main jet .. it runs like a champ.
 
#9 ·
the 19mm carb is a dellorto phbg. bytheway, that's not my bike. i was wondering about the power of a blata engine so i asked a guy to bring his wrs to the dyno.

i don't know much about all the various blata engines. i have a wrs "kit" engine in my workshop, and it came with a 14mm phva carb. the code on the cylinder is "11d". as far as i know the difference between the "kit" engines and the normal engines is an additional porting of the intake and piston done at the factory. it's not my engine either, but i can use it for dyno tests...

r
 
#10 ·
Anyway I´ve always heard Blata is crearly claiming not so true top end power. The supposed B1 15hp would be 11,5 or 12 at last.
My friends team purchased two 14wrs at the same time and both engines are different, not the same crank nor piston and other small diffs.
 
#11 ·
Thanks guys, i had tested both carbs and the phvb was the best to work.. i was very difficult to adjust but once done the bike goes like hell.
My engine is from a 2005 origami and it has the latest type of cylinder, it's marked as 7c05 but in fact is a B Cylinder (marked at the bottom).. had the standar crank but i changed it a few months ago.
Mccrash the power claimed by blata is at the crank, so it you put the bike at the dyno i would do a few hp less.. the other manufacturers had the same problem, all the power output it's supposed at the crank.

Now i'm thinking to purchase a 50cc kit from savacanada because last saturday the piston bearing cracked and some pieces of metal scratched the piston, head and some little scratch in the cylinder.. so anyone could tell me if that kit is a good choice? i'm wondering if the port timing it's adjusted in those kits..
 
#18 ·
Thanks guys, i had tested both carbs and the phvb was the best to work.. i was very difficult to adjust but once done the bike goes like hell.
This is my dilemna now, i also have a PHBG19 ds i can use in place of the PHVB19. I know the PHVB has a larger throat but trying to dial it in has been a nightmare. What were the differences in performance you found between the two?
 
#12 ·
mccrash59 said:
Anyway I´ve always heard Blata is crearly claiming not so true top end power. The supposed B1 15hp would be 11,5 or 12 at last.
blata, like everybody else, are claiming crank hp. this means that their engine has 15 hp at the crankshaft. the clutch, the chain, and the tire, waste 25% of that power, so the power at the rear wheel is 11 hp. a "17 hp" polini bike tested on that same dyno had 12.5 hp at the rear wheel.

i have done simulations regarding the bigboring of blata cylinders. they predict only a little increase in power and torque, but an enormous increase in "midrange" power and rideability. the only port that definitely needs modifying is the boostport, the rest can be left "as is".
of course, one can modify the exhaust port to get the same power as the other 50cc engines. but this will turn the engine into a goatish beast, so it's only advisable for high-speed tracks.

that phvb carb, is that a 20.5mm carb?

r
 
#13 ·
interesting, i rode this 2 years ago when my buddie got it and i definitly underestimated it. needless to say after a half hr or so of playing with it, the powerband finally reared up like a cobra striking its prey. i think everybody knows what happens next. since i have got it i have not pushed it that hard. i actually want to figure out where that sweet spot is and try to master it so i can be sure to have all my weight down on the front end. any sugestions?
 
#14 ·
The phvb carb is a 19mm and the intake connection is 5mm bigger so blata fits in the origami with a special stuffers in the reeds cage and bigger intake hose. As i said this carb gives more performance as the phbg, the engine runs smoother and have better acceleration in my bike :D

This morning i inspected the damage of the engine and miraclously there was no damage in the cilinder.. so i will change the piston and the head and that's it until i have more money.

Regards!
 
#16 ·
#22 ·
Hey cagaroni, I'm exactly on the same page as what you're discussing. I asked many people about that reed spacer issue and so far I have different answers. I was gonna ask about your results after putting on the 10mil spacer but then you're still wondering yourself wether it's good or not.

Two things I can tell you, if you do it you'll gain revs at the expense of torque. One thing I'd never want on my bike.
 
#23 ·
The problem is that i dont have access to a scooter dyno to run some legit comparison tests and right now im having carb tuning problems with my WRS so i havent been able to even do a "butt dyno" test. Plus I dont have a baseline to go on since the WRS has been either running bad or had problems since I purchased it.

The C1 that I modified is still brand new but since its for sale I havent even started it up yet so i dont even know how much better the reed spacer made on that.. i may take it for rip down the street tomorrow if it doesnt snow as a "test run" just to make sure everything works. ;)
 
#26 ·
Roger that! Look up his new address on the Mini Moto UK site. All that info is lost forever, because he chose not to put it on the website. He thought he was putting stuff down for the common racer to use and further their understanding, but found some of the run of the mill tuners gained access to info they previously didn't know.
 
#33 ·
Roger that! Look up his new address on the Mini Moto UK site. All that info is lost forever, because he chose not to put it on the website. He thought he was putting stuff down for the common racer to use and further their understanding, but found some of the run of the mill tuners gained access to info they previously didn't know.
That was a concern, yes. I'll leave it where you,ve found it though.......thanks for appreciating it......Ian
 
#29 · (Edited)
we need to get some of the ole school guys back like rasputin, blah, the mad bike yanker, etc.. back on the forum!! :thumbsup:

that DMR website now works but they did take all the tuning info off which stinks..

anyway, does anybody know how to get/access archived stuff that may be cached in a google search memory? it would be nice to try and pull up & save all of the old dominant monkey racing's blata tuning articles if they are lingering somewhere in cyber space.. :confused:
 
#30 · (Edited)
ok i found it!!!!! woofreakinhooo!!!!you have to copy & paste part of the file you want into the freeweb address and it pulls it up!! i'm copying everything he ever did and printing it as a mdi file to my cpu using imagewriter and compiling links to all the threads.. clickity here for some of them (they look like the same "l" link but its actually different stuff:

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#32 · (Edited)
Hi, nice to see the old site was held in such regard..........thanks. Glad you managed to regain access to it.....enjoy.

I did a lot of dyno testing on a B1 recently and eventually achieved some impressive results. There is considerable expense involved but they can be made to produce similar figures to the BZM and OR engines and give a very pleasing curve.........unlike the standard engines which are all over the place.

Darren @ OZ.......i'd be quite happy to e-mail you some dyno runs showing what was achieved.........not disimilar to yours..........for you to post up..........but I cannot, for commercial reasons, go into details.

If anyone wants one of these engines please get in touch. ian.dmr@live.co.uk

One hint though: dont bother to widen the reed inlet area!
 
#35 ·
One hint though: dont bother to widen the reed inlet area!
so a reed spacer is not recommended? what about the reed tip blocking the direct entrance to the boost part, do you not think this is inhibiting performance vs. unblocking it? any input to our questions above regarding the intake would be greatly appreciated.. i believe even Trevor Sellars recommended opening and reshaping the intake to allow better lift and flow.


http://www.pocketbikeplanet.com/f83/tuning-b1-china-replica-4938-13.html#post175967
 
#38 ·
actually i just read over your old B1 review and you do say you thought the reed lift was inadequate.. here is the link to the b1 review with pics if you want to check it out:

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This picture shows the barrel and reed cage in position on one half of the crankcase. The reeds have about a 3mm lift before the crankcases act as a stop and the skirt on the bottom of the barrel protrudes into the flowpath from the reeds. I put the reed specs through TSR and it didn't like the amount of reed lift available. TSR wanted to give a 10mm lift to either side of the reeds, which just isnt possible and also recommended a 19mm 'Carb' rather than the 17.5mm standard item. I did radius some more area into the inlet to give the reeds another 1.5mm of lift on either side, thats all that could be done here. I couldn't get my head round these crankcases! The skirt at the bottom of the barrelprotrudes into the flowpath from the reed cage and the path to the rear boost port is almost directly above the reed tips meaning charge flow from the reeds would just bypass. The boost port is therefore reliant on the descending piston to supply it with some charge. The crankcases also appear designed to restrict charge from circulating in there and had only the bare minimum opening through which the Connecting Rod could go. If they are not designed to restrict access for charge or to increase primary compression I'm puzzled. If charge is getting down there it has several obstacles to fight its way past in order to gain access to the Transfer passages???

 
#42 ·
actually i just read over your old B1 review and you do say you thought the reed lift was inadequate.. here is the link to the b1 review with pics if you want to check it out:

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This picture shows the barrel and reed cage in position on one half of the crankcase. The reeds have about a 3mm lift before the crankcases act as a stop and the skirt on the bottom of the barrel protrudes into the flowpath from the reeds. I put the reed specs through TSR and it didn't like the amount of reed lift available. TSR wanted to give a 10mm lift to either side of the reeds, which just isnt possible and also recommended a 19mm 'Carb' rather than the 17.5mm standard item. I did radius some more area into the inlet to give the reeds another 1.5mm of lift on either side, thats all that could be done here. I couldn't get my head round these crankcases! The skirt at the bottom of the barrelprotrudes into the flowpath from the reed cage and the path to the rear boost port is almost directly above the reed tips meaning charge flow from the reeds would just bypass. The boost port is therefore reliant on the descending piston to supply it with some charge. The crankcases also appear designed to restrict charge from circulating in there and had only the bare minimum opening through which the Connecting Rod could go. If they are not designed to restrict access for charge or to increase primary compression I'm puzzled. If charge is getting down there it has several obstacles to fight its way past in order to gain access to the Transfer passages???

Hi Cagaroni, i've given this a little thought for a while.........dont want muppets to spoil it for others

The inlet area isnt someting i've given any thought to for some time. I vaguely recall putting the specs through TSR.

Its probably better if I explain what happens here in the uk with the B1 type engines. Firstly they are a 40cc engine but because the have a multimeter carb and 5 port barrel they are thrown straight into the super class against open 50cc engines. Consequently no one here races them.

So, the fundamental problem is one of engine capacity. The B! cranks have a short stroke, something like 37mm...........so even on a 40mm barrel they only reach something like 46cc. We all know there are BZM parts available for them so in order to get them comparable to the 50cc open class machinery we have to up the capacity using those parts. However even when that is done and with porting they still fall short and never really lose that strange mid-range surge followed by nothing!

The secret is in the pipe! I've never seen an engine transformed like it...................
 
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