New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions - Pocket Bike Forum - Mini Bikes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
verified
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 2
New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

Hi everybody, Paddy from NC here. I have an APC mini chopper that has very clearly been around the block with previous owners and backyard ‘mechanics’. I’ll start by introducing that I do have quite a bit of mechanical experience, but in several fields that are NOT mini bikes. That being said, I’m becoming frustrated with this mini chopper’s electrical system. It’s also worth a mention that there are several cut and splice segments that are clearly not factory.
The headlight, taillight, and gauge lights seem to be in normal working order. The turn signals have all been smashed or chopped right off. The turn signal relay does let out a terrible screech when i activate the switch in either direction, but I’m not too concerned with that right now.

My major concern is the electric starting circuit. I’m able to crank the engine by manually closing the output lugs of the starter relay under the gas tank, but the starter switch next to the throttle does not activate my solenoid. I’ve gone through the switch, relay, and the circuit between the two with an ohmmeter and have no reason to believe that either is faulty. I could be wrong and dealing with a faulty input side of the relay, which seems most plausible. I’m honestly not quite sure how to explain it any further and I’m hoping someone has dealt with similar issues. I don’t want to start throwing parts at it if
I’m not sure what’s going wrong. One thing I found extremely odd was constant continuity between both input poles of the relay(powered or not, ignition switch both open and closed), but still having normal starter operation when I short the output poles. Could I have a bad relay magnet that’s causing this problem? I’m stumped.

One more quick question that seemed odd to me... a two position key switch but with 4 wires, and 2 more unused poles? This makes no sense to me. Why not a two position key as battery cut-off rather than running small-gauge wire all over the place?

Sorry for the long post guys, I want to try to be thorough with my description! Thank you so much for any insight you can provide!!
Paddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
EPR
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 24,102
Re: New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

Welcome aboard, your lucky I just drop by. There are 2 stroke and 4 stroke honda clone horizontal engines. Sounds like you have a 49cc piston port, with the generator/starter unit with rope pull start on the end?? 1st photo is a 110cc honda clone engine in X18 Super Pocket Bike class, the others are 43 and 49cc piston port engines,

The wiring on both are very problematic working on mine on the X18. I can give you more info wants I find out what engine you have,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg X18R Nitro2.JPG (505.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 49cc HP Scooter1.jpg (205.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg My 43cc Scooter1.jpg (369.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg My 43cc Scooter3.jpg (450.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 49cc Piston Port with Transmissoin1.jpg (406.0 KB, 3 views)
EPR is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
verified
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 2
Thanks for replying so fast! The second photo you posted, the red one, is exactly what i have (but mines much worse looking, lol) It really is such an electrical nightmare, but in the past hour or so I’ve actually come to discover the problem, which can be described by one of the first things I said: my mechanical experience. I went for all the hardest things first and forgot the first rule... always look at the easy stuff first!! It was actually the neutral safety switch causing all my problems, which makes perfect sense. I was able to take it apart, clean it good, and salvage it and now I am good to go!!

Hopefully this prevents someone else from wasting as much time as I did. Thanks again for your reply.

Now just about the alarm noise from my blinker relay and the nonsensical ignition switch...
Paddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
EPR
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 24,102
Re: New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

Many, many people here have had the same problem, its nothing new, lol. The red engine has been highly modifed its a Boosted306 ported cyld and Walbro WT-813 16mm carb with alum intake, boosted bottle, lightend flywheel, rocket key 10% ign advance and Pro Jet hp exhaust. It came with the starter/gen, which I rip off and put the pull start back. My scooter don't have lights so I took it off. All you need it a kill switch or button to ground the coil to stop it, and use the rope to start it and rip all that stuff off. The unit is heavy and the big magnets slow the engine down and rob power. The bikes illegal they will impound it if they want no matter what you have. If you lose the starter housing, blinkers and lights you will have 2 wires both go to the kill button, which is what I recommend. If you have to lights, by all LED lights for motor cycles and a battery to run them and recharge the battery when your done. The wiring dia, I show here is a Cateye w/ lights etc. Has the same engine with same generator, it will show how these bike are wired.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Cat Eye Wiring Dia..gif (20.1 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by EPR; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:56 PM.
EPR is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
PBP RACER
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Age: 68
Posts: 126
Re: New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

The way to look at the 4 wire ignition switch is it's actually 2 switches.

One pair of wires connects the battery.

The other pair, and this is the confusing part, takes the ground OFF the magneto ignition. A mag ignition is live all the time. When you turn the bike OFF you're actually connecting a ground. When you turn the key ON you're dis-connecting the ground and going live on the mag.

It can seem backwards ...
pntrbl is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
EPR
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 24,102
Re: New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

Also, the gen/starter has 4 brushes, two to start the engine and two the make power to charge the battery. The Gen puts out AC current 13.7 volts, your battery is DC current, so you have a rectifier box that turns AC to DC, thru a 10 amp fuse and out. to charge your battery.
Disconnect the blink box and for get rid of the blinkers. If it runs put a volt meter on the Gen hot wire and read the voltage, if its 12.5 volt or less the Gen is worn out.
EPR is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,721
Re: New member w/ APC chopper electrical questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pntrbl View Post
The way to look at the 4 wire ignition switch is it's actually 2 switches.

One pair of wires connects the battery.

The other pair, and this is the confusing part, takes the ground OFF the magneto ignition. A mag ignition is live all the time. When you turn the bike OFF you're actually connecting a ground. When you turn the key ON you're dis-connecting the ground and going live on the mag.

It can seem backwards ...
That's one of the wonders of floating ground wiring systems......LOL

What most cant fathom is how the keyswitch doesn't need a ground wire to complete the power circuit when the key is turned on which simply just bridges the power wire together...

The ground is just needed to complete the killswitch action to kill the engine when the key is turned off as the whole shebang battery and all is grounded to the frame;-engine included..


Last edited by CAM2; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:01 PM.
CAM2 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pocket Bike Forum - Mini Bikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome