Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F - Pocket Bike Forum - Mini Bikes
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018 Thread Starter
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Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

I want to change the gear ratio. Looking at Ebay they have both the 25h size and the T8F size. What came with it is the 25H (I think). One my other bikes has a fatter more substantial chain and gears. Only way I know of describing it is that it's just a little wider than a standard bicycle chain. So, I would like to change over to the T8F. So, do I have the terms correct ? What I'm calling the 25H is a lot narrower than a bicycle chain. Any recommendations ?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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Originally Posted by Xyptir View Post
I want to change the gear ratio. Looking at Ebay they have both the 25h size and the T8F size. What came with it is the 25H (I think). One my other bikes has a fatter more substantial chain and gears. Only way I know of describing it is that it's just a little wider than a standard bicycle chain. So, I would like to change over to the T8F. So, do I have the terms correct ? What I'm calling the 25H is a lot narrower than a bicycle chain. Any recommendations ?
The spaghetti thin #25 is indeed the skinniest of chains and the non dogbone oval shaped links is the TF-8mm....

Cags came with both styles so does pocketdirtbikes and pocketquads

Recommendations depend on the type of ratio youre looking for meaning whats on it now and how do you want to make power improvements..

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

Best way to find out is to measure the center to center distance between the pins, that's the pitch. The #25 is 1/4" or 6.35mm between pins. The T8F has an 8mm pitch.

There is the common #25 size and the superior 25H. The 25H has wider link and joiner plates (1mm instead of 0.7mm) and if it's a good brand can handle quite a lot of tension. I personally don't see a reason to go away from a 25H chain but there could well be something I am missing here.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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Best way to find out is to measure the center to center distance between the pins, that's the pitch. The #25 is 1/4" or 6.35mm between pins. The T8F has an 8mm pitch.
There is the common #25 size and the superior 25H. The 25H has wider link and joiner plates (1mm instead of 0.7mm) and if it's a good brand can handle quite a lot of tension. I personally don't see a reason to go away from a 25H chain but there could well be something I am missing here.
Yes you have researched and have concluded well....

Only one question to ask yourself.....

What size chain do you see on those expensive euro made racers pushing 16hp to the rear wheel????

It takes a bit more power to turn the 8mm chain which is almost the same size as the #35 chain but doesn't work well without dremeling the sprocket teeth

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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Yes you have researched and have concluded well....

Only one question to ask yourself.....

What size chain do you see on those expensive euro made racers pushing 16hp to the rear wheel????

It takes a bit more power to turn the 8mm chain which is almost the same size as the #35 chain but doesn't work well without dremeling the sprocket teeth

That question is exactly what I made me suggest what I did. I have one of the 16Hp rated Blata W50 engines (engine not wheel power though) and it still uses the 0.25" chain. I attached a pic of what my clutch/housing/pinion assembly looks like, I give credit to Blata for it being such a nice quality part. This page says "25HR" instead of just "25H" which I don't know the difference of. Perhaps to the 25H dimensions but made to a high quality to suit racing use?


Zoeken


I figured that if it's good enough for those then I don't see why it wouldn't be good enough for any Cag engine out there that has a direct output and as you said it would avoid the extra drag of the 8mm pitch chain. Also isn't there less of a range of ratios to suit that pitch? I could be completely wrong there as it's not exactly something I have looked into.



In the past in my ignorance I purchased a standard industrial rated #25 chain from the brand Fener and fitted it to a different engine which was a 40cc F1 Blata Rep. That sure was a harsh mistake. Literally under 5 minutes later after it's first use and I was pushing my scooter home with a snapped chain. When it let go it also damaged both the third bearing support and the pinion.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018
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HI, I have a similar question. I am trying to figure out what size motor and clutch to replace for my middle son's Apc mini chopper rebuild. I measured the center from pin to pin on the chain and it is more like 1/2 in or 13.5 mm? I thought it was a 25H it a T8f but now I'm really not sure? Any help would be great! THANKS
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018
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I know these I little 2 stroke 43-49c motors have more torque than the 80-96c 4 strokes I have stock. This is what the bike looks like so far. The plastics are all sanded and waiting to be primed and painted soon.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018
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If you have a 4 stroke you might as well use it the apc mini chopper is not built for speed

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018
Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

That looks like bicycle chain, Not #25 or T8F, but maybe its just the photo. Are the chain side plates stamped with anything?? I have never seen a 43 or 49cc piston port engine that did not have T8F chains to the rear wheel, and I have many bikes. See photo.
My first 2 Cags came with 25H chain, my last had T8F chain
Better to buy a $15, T8F 6 tooth 3rd bearing clutch housing, Enough 8mm chain and a Cag 54tooth T8F rear gear. Better count your chain links.
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Last edited by EPR; 08-01-2018 at 06:10 PM.
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This is the motor I am considering. It looks similar and has same looking teeth but it says for T8F chain? Below is the motor that was on it ? Looks like the same clutch but it only had 2 bolts for the clutch that would line up with the motor mounts. My older son's chopper has a motor like pictured on top from eBay.
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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That looks like bicycle chain, Not #25 or T8F, but maybe its just the photo. Are the chain side plates stamped with anything?? I have never seen a 43 or 49cc piston port engine that did not have T8F chains to the rear wheel, and I have many bikes. See photo.
My first 2 Cags came with 25H chain, my last had T8F chain
Better to buy a $15, T8F 6 tooth 3rd bearing clutch housing, Enough 8mm chain and a Cag 54tooth T8F rear gear. Better count your chain links.
An Upgrade is 415h

https://www.ebay.com/itm/49-60-66-80...er+chain&rt=nc

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Last edited by CAM2; 08-01-2018 at 08:18 PM.
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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Originally Posted by Johnnymerk808 View Post
This is the motor I am considering. It looks similar and has same looking teeth but it says for T8F chain? Below is the motor that was on it ? Looks like the same clutch but it only had 2 bolts for the clutch that would line up with the motor mounts. My older son's chopper has a motor like pictured on top from eBay.
The engine that somebody put on it is a cag engine melded with a piston ported transmission....

Why not do a twin engine project....With two engines you'll have double the power......LOL

This one had between 8.5 -9hp of killer power..........
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File Type: jpg 025.JPG (108.7 KB, 4 views)

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I think you're right. It measures the same distance from center to center on my kids bikes.. it's just a whole lot beefier. What clutch would I need? Is it just the sprocket that matters? Both of mine have 12 off the drive shaft.
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

That new engine is the engine the bike came with, you can change the sprocket teeth size, even use 25h or T8F sprockets and chain. He had to run the Cag engine backwards cause the drive chain is on the right, and Cag on the left. But, when you mount either engine like that it turns backwards, and that little 3 to 1 or 5 to 1 trans reverses the engine direction so the rear wheel turns forward, the CVT belt trans reverses direction also.

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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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Originally Posted by Johnnymerk808 View Post
I think you're right. It measures the same distance from center to center on my kids bikes.. it's just a whole lot beefier. What clutch would I need? Is it just the sprocket that matters? Both of mine have 12 off the drive shaft.
Those 7:1 , 5:1 and 3:1 reduction transmissions have sprockets for 25/25H Tf8mm and #415.....

What you dont know is one time on one of my X1's I actually ran a #41 chain on those same sprockets bike type chain sprickets too....it was just a huge wide monstrosity.....lol

There's like 3 different clutches available for it...

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Last edited by CAM2; 08-02-2018 at 05:44 AM.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-03-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to stick with the 25H. I am changing the front sprocket to an 8 tooth from the 6 it came with. I want a higher top end. I do need a new chain because the one I have has stuck links that bend but not easily. Soaked it in gas for days and oiled it up and it still makes popping noises when it rolls over the front sprocket. After all the measuring and "putting a wrench on it" I figured it was a 25H. But then I saw some little markings on a few links. pics attached.
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I have freed up stuck links with a ball peen hammer and a hard piece of wood

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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

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I have freed up stuck links with a ball peen hammer and a hard piece of wood
Diesel fuel and a torch.....soak chain,,heat chain loosen links,resoak,reheat if needed until the chain works as it should...

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-03-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

Hmmmm. sounds interesting. I'll give it a try. Diesel fuel, When I was a kid, we used kerosene. probably can't get that any more. I love the smell of Diesel fuel in the morning. Smells like, like POCKET BIKE RIDING TIME !!
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Re: Changing my CAG from 25H to T8F

Online I get 158 links of 25H chain for $8, and throw the old chain away. I also buy some gold chain, Cad plating cause it don't rust as bad a reg. chain. Once your chain gets loose spots and you adjust it, it will be to loose in spots and to tight in others.
With an 8 tooth pinion it is going to be hard on your clutch pads, and going to lose take off speed.

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Last edited by EPR; 08-04-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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