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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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I've got a question...

Hey guys/gals,

I've got a GP RSR coming. As you all already know it only comes with a 40cc 4 stroke (weak) now days. I was looking online at 49cc 2 strokers to swap out. I found one I'm interested in using but it has a "gear reduction transmission" thing on it. I've personally never owned a pocket bike and I also haven't messed with anything that has this "gear reduction transmission" deal on it. The question I have about that is...,...,...Can this be removed to use the centrifugal clutch from the other engine?
I of course am assuming these 4 bolt centrifugal clutch housings are interchangeable.?.?.?.?
Any help here is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Randall
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Engine in question.
I also don’t think any of these engines I am seeing are of “top quality” at all. They’re all cheap (monetarily). If you guys have suggestions for better engines and where to get them, that would also be appreciated.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Hey guys/gals,

I've got a GP RSR coming. As you all already know it only comes with a 40cc 4 stroke (weak) now days. I was looking online at 49cc 2 strokers to swap out. I found one I'm interested in using but it has a "gear reduction transmission" thing on it. I've personally never owned a pocket bike and I also haven't messed with anything that has this "gear reduction transmission" deal on it. The question I have about that is...,...,...Can this be removed to use the centrifugal clutch from the other engine?
I of course am assuming these 4 bolt centrifugal clutch housings are interchangeable.?.?.?.?
Any help here is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Randall
You look like a pretty tall guy,,,Im guessing 6ft maybe 6'2"....You should try riding the bike you bought first to see if the lotus riding position agrees with you first...Ö..LOL


Anything with wheels has a limit on how high or low you can go with the gear ratio on a vehicle.....

The gear reduction transmissions allow a normal sized drive sprocket with 11-20tth and more arc and rsdius than a 6tth-10tth pinion gear which helps alot in reducing friction in thst area.......

It also helps alot in slowing down the vehicle as soon as the throttle is closed so you dont have to use the brakes as much or as hard...


The engine you pictured is indeed bottom of the barrel but if you start with its brand name equivalent youll start with a better quality also sliightly more powerful engine or you can buy 3 bottom of the barrel engines and hop them up with a dremel also give them between 5 and 6hp and swap them out as they weaken...........


The brand name engine is a Robin NB-411

Heres a bone stock 2 stroke cag........

bone stock cag by Dizzy Gillespie, on Flickr

Heres a modified one..Tis one is a 2pc headkit with aggressive porting and blueprinting,lightening,balancing etc,,,

033 by Dizzy Gillespie, on Flickr

And another modified one.....This one is a 1pc stock cylinder engine with same magic I always do....LOL

trophy cag modded exhaust 2 by Dizzy Gillespie, on Flickr

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Last edited by CAM2; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:04 PM.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Re: I've got a question...

Hey Cam 2,
I thought you might chime in.
I'm actually not a tall guy at all. I'm 5'4"/160lbs. I think that's the first time anyone has mistaken me for being tall (lol). It's probably just the angle of that photo. Lisa took that picture of me while she was sitting in a chair.

Anyways, I appreciate the information. It seems like all I'm running across for engines are exactly what you described them as, "bottom of the barrel". I seriously don't like buying bottom of the barrel anything. It always costs you more in the end than just buying the good stuff. Thanks for passing on the name of the good engine to look for and the info about that gear reduction, I appreciate the help.

Randall
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Re: I've got a question...

Is the Robin NB411 discontinued? I only come up with parts & manuals. Not any complete/new engines.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Hey Cam 2,
I thought you might chime in.
I'm actually not a tall guy at all. I'm 5'4"/160lbs. I think that's the first time anyone has mistaken me for being tall (lol). It's probably just the angle of that photo. Lisa took that picture of me while she was sitting in a chair.

Anyways, I appreciate the information. It seems like all I'm running across for engines are exactly what you described them as, "bottom of the barrel". I seriously don't like buying bottom of the barrel anything. It always costs you more in the end than just buying the good stuff. Thanks for passing on the name of the good engine to look for and the info about that gear reduction, I appreciate the help.

Randall
Those pocketbike pics I posted are vid links.........Check them out..

All are bottom of the barrel engines..Two are modified into something better... ......

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Is the Robin NB411 discontinued? I only come up with parts & manuals. Not any complete/new engines.

Yeah kind of....The parts for them are readily available.........


Just know that the NB-411 comes in 40mm bore max too....


The next step bikes are the chinese euro-replica aircooled and watercooled pocketbikes called the MT-A4 or the real Deal Polini or Blata euros....


The watercooled pb I posted that you saw is a 1999 Polini 910 Carrena.....


In fact this month it became 20 years old.............LOL


Back in 2006 I also had a 50cc Chinese made Banshee with BZM engine with like 14-15hp....

That ones been sold long ago......

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Ok, I’ve got another inquiry. Should I put gear oil or maybe even engine oil in the gear reduction “box”?
I would think it to be a good thing to have the gears/chain in there to get proper lubrication.
I was thinking of tapping in a couple of bolts (top/bottom) with crush washers to properly seal it up with.
Thanks in advance.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
Re: I've got a question...

You carve out the bear grease from China trans, clean it good and put 100ml of light engine oil. Don't know why they call it a trans, it two gears, one three times bigger and a chain. Like CAM2 said its an RPM reducer 3 to 1.
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Empty Pockets Racing: The difficult we do, the impossible takes longer.....
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Ok, Iíve got another inquiry. Should I put gear oil or maybe even engine oil in the gear reduction ďboxĒ?
I would think it to be a good thing to have the gears/chain in there to get proper lubrication.
I was thinking of tapping in a couple of bolts (top/bottom) with crush washers to properly seal it up with.
Thanks in advance.
They put vegetable grease aka bio-grease in them......Its a great idea to put a lil lube just enough to get picked up and slung around...

As far as doing the drainplug mod;-Heck yeah I say...

For your overall topspeed Im guessing that things geared at around 11:1 ratio with current gearing with the reduction transmission combined..

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Good stuff!
I’ll be getting on this one tomorrow then.
Thank you guys for the reply, I appreciate it.

By the way. I ran the bike yesterday for around 1-1.5 hours. So this afternoon I started it & let it get to a good temperature. Emptied engine oil & it was pretty darn sparkly! So I put the plug back in, added 100ml fresh oil, pulled plug again (as to flush more particles). Then did my final fill.
I did this because I know this is an el-cheapo engine & I was curious to see the amount of metal coming out after the short time I operated it.
After seeing the amount of particulate that came from that oil, I seriously am going to do the same thing a few (3-4) times. I think it should calm down by then.
These engines take so little oil, that I don’t think it’s a bad idea. Plus I’d like to get rid of the rest of the quart of petroleum & run my usual Amsoil. I don’t really care if the engine gives up the ghost or not, I just like to take good care of all of my machines. Plus my son wants to buy the bike when I purchase the X15 that I want.
I also went to the hardware real fast today, picked up some mild steel 3/4” square tubing & some 3M “grip tape”.Cut & drilled a couple pieces of it to use for foot pegs (similar to what they did, but with better metal). I also replaced the pins/cotter keys with bolts & nyloc nuts. They work pretty darn well, the 3M grip tape stuff is AWESOME!!!

🤙🏻🏁🏍️&#x1f6 0e;

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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My plain Jane, home made foot pegs & another picture, just cause I felt like it. Yes, my garage is sometimes (right now) an organized disaster : )
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Good stuff!
Iíll be getting on this one tomorrow then.
Thank you guys for the reply, I appreciate it.

By the way. I ran the bike yesterday for around 1-1.5 hours. So this afternoon I started it & let it get to a good temperature. Emptied engine oil & it was pretty darn sparkly! So I put the plug back in, added 100ml fresh oil, pulled plug again (as to flush more particles). Then did my final fill.
I did this because I know this is an el-cheapo engine & I was curious to see the amount of metal coming out after the short time I operated it.
After seeing the amount of particulate that came from that oil, I seriously am going to do the same thing a few (3-4) times. I think it should calm down by then.
These engines take so little oil, that I donít think itís a bad idea. Plus Iíd like to get rid of the rest of the quart of petroleum & run my usual Amsoil. I donít really care if the engine gives up the ghost or not, I just like to take good care of all of my machines. Plus my son wants to buy the bike when I purchase the X15 that I want.
I also went to the hardware real fast today, picked up some mild steel 3/4Ē square tubing & some 3M ďgrip tapeĒ.Cut & drilled a couple pieces of it to use for foot pegs (similar to what they did, but with better metal). I also replaced the pins/cotter keys with bolts & nyloc nuts. They work pretty darn well, the 3M grip tape stuff is AWESOME!!!

🤙🏻🏁🏍️&#x1f6 0e;
Those engines require an oil change every 5-8hours....How does changing the oil so much help the environment?....LOL

As far as your footpegs.....Those things are sad as sad comes........I would cut them off them either put a threaded rod through the hollow tube and make a crude set of BMX style stuntpegs except with a whistle cut on the top end bent upwards and the bottom side 45 degree cut sort of like reverse meathook footpegs.....

or

Id weld on something a lot better......


I just used an actual BMX footpeg on most of my bikes..I have huge feet...LOL

On my 1999 polini 910 I made some super quick indestructible footpegs out of steel and some rear rider footpegs off one of my old Harleys...LOL


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Last edited by CAM2; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:24 PM.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
Good stuff!
I’ll be getting on this one tomorrow then.
Thank you guys for the reply, I appreciate it.

By the way. I ran the bike yesterday for around 1-1.5 hours. So this afternoon I started it & let it get to a good temperature. Emptied engine oil & it was pretty darn sparkly! So I put the plug back in, added 100ml fresh oil, pulled plug again (as to flush more particles). Then did my final fill.
I did this because I know this is an el-cheapo engine & I was curious to see the amount of metal coming out after the short time I operated it.
After seeing the amount of particulate that came from that oil, I seriously am going to do the same thing a few (3-4) times. I think it should calm down by then.
These engines take so little oil, that I don’t think it’s a bad idea. Plus I’d like to get rid of the rest of the quart of petroleum & run my usual Amsoil. I don’t really care if the engine gives up the ghost or not, I just like to take good care of all of my machines. Plus my son wants to buy the bike when I purchase the X15 that I want.
I also went to the hardware real fast today, picked up some mild steel 3/4” square tubing & some 3M “grip tape”.Cut & drilled a couple pieces of it to use for foot pegs (similar to what they did, but with better metal). I also replaced the pins/cotter keys with bolts & nyloc nuts. They work pretty darn well, the 3M grip tape stuff is AWESOME!!!

🤙🏻🏁🏍️&#x1f6 0e;
Those engines require an oil change every 5-8hours....How does changing the oil so much help the environment?....LOL

As far as your footpegs.....Those things are sad as sad comes........I would cut them off them either put a threaded rod through the hollow tube and make a crude set of BMX style stuntpegs except with a whistle cut on the top end bent upwards and the bottom side 45 degree cut sort of like reverse meathook footpegs.....

or

Id weld on something a lot better......


I just used an actual BMX footpeg on most of my bikes..I have huge feet...LOL

On my 1999 polini 910 I made some super quick indestructible footpegs out of steel and some rear rider footpegs off one of my old Harleys...LOL

Lol, yeah, they’re crappy foot pegs for sure. Sad fact...,...,...I’ve never welded anything. I have 3 brothers that are iron workers, it’d be cool to have them show me what’s up with that.
There’s no hollow tube on mine. It’s a piece of rod with a box welded on the end of it. It’s a horrible design. I bought the square tubing & grip tape so I didn’t end up on my face from the stockers breaking. I kind of tore them up pretty bad yesterday, I wasn’t going to ride on them again...& I wanted to ride today. Now I’m sore from 2 days in a row on that thing : )
It’s a little harder to ride these things fast (body position) & not drag hard parts (foot pegs). & it’s definitely not cool when the foot peg makes contact. I am going to do what you suggested & cut/grind an angle on the bottom half of the foot pegs to gain a touch bit more lean angle before the foot peg is on the ground.

Yes, that is a lot of oil changing considering it’s supposed to be “environmentally friendly”. My oil changing schedules definitely don’t line up with “environmentally friendly”. I do however always take my used oil to be recycled. I don’t actually know how environmentally friendly that is either (the recycling part).

Last edited by MiniPilot; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:51 PM.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Lol, yeah, theyíre crappy foot pegs for sure. Sad fact...,...,...Iíve never welded anything. I have 3 brothers that are iron workers, itíd be cool to have them show me whatís up with that.
Thereís no hollow tube on mine. Itís a piece of rod with a box welded on the end of it. Itís a horrible design. I bought the square tubing & grip tape so I didnít end up on my face from the stockers breaking. I kind of tore them up pretty bad yesterday, I wasnít going to ride on them again...& I wanted to ride today. Now Iím sore from 2 days in a row on that thing : )
Itís a little harder to ride these things fast (body position) & not drag hard parts (foot pegs). & itís definitely not cool when the foot peg makes contact. I am going to do what you suggested & cut/grind an angle on the bottom half of the foot pegs to gain a touch bit more lean angle before the foot peg is on the ground.

Yes, that is a lot of oil changing considering itís supposed to be ďenvironmentally friendlyĒ. My oil changing schedules definitely donít line up with ďenvironmentally friendlyĒ. I do however always take my used oil to be recycled. I donít actually know how environmentally friendly that is either (the recycling part).
I have a waste oil burner also a wood burning barrel stove that heats my workshop....All my friends and a bunch of others bring their oil to me all year long....The summer months I get to stockpile of at least 3-400 gallons ahead of time...

If you have the solid rod you can cut the brackets off and sleeve the small dowel with a piece of round tube then weld it over the smaller diameter dowel and tap it with a die or get stock cag footpegs or imitation meathooks and mount them..

https://www.ebay.com/i/113673267093?...SABEgJeZ_D_BwE
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Re: I've got a question...

Waste oil burner...,...,...sounds like something I could use. Good stuff, Cam2!

I drilled/tapped fill/drain plugs in my gear box today. Initial wipe out & cleaning with WD-40 to get rid of the crap grease I found in there.Wiped all WD-40 out best I could (microfiber), drilled/tapped/installed bolts/washers & then cleaned the 2 halves' mating surfaces with brake cleaner. I applied a thin layer of Ultra Black on each half & bolted her back up. I'll add oil to it tomorrow evening when the UB is cured up.
I wanted to go ahead and change out either the front or rear sprocket. Either smaller front or a larger rear, maybe even both. There's a problem with this though. I have a 8mm (T8F) chain & I can't find either sprocket (front/rear) of a different size than stock for the 8mm chain. Any info about obtaining these sprockets would be greatly appreciated.
I also thought maybe I could change the "reduction" sprockets, I believe they're 05T sprockets/chain...,...,...**** off about that, I didn't look to see what they were (tooth count) before I closed it up this evening after the work. Once again, a point in the right direction for that would be cool too.
I know I may just end up leaving the gearing stock because I can't find what I want. The bike coming out of a tight corner is a dog though. It like bogs down & doesn't want to get us (bike/me) moving & I kind of don't really like it.
Also, these jerks have the engine/rear wheel setup so I can't even just change from the gear reduction to a regular clutch everything will be out of whack by a couple inches.

IDK, regroup I guess & think of something else...
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: I've got a question...

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Waste oil burner...,...,...sounds like something I could use. Good stuff, Cam2!

I drilled/tapped fill/drain plugs in my gear box today. Initial wipe out & cleaning with WD-40 to get rid of the crap grease I found in there.Wiped all WD-40 out best I could (microfiber), drilled/tapped/installed bolts/washers & then cleaned the 2 halves' mating surfaces with brake cleaner. I applied a thin layer of Ultra Black on each half & bolted her back up. I'll add oil to it tomorrow evening when the UB is cured up.
I wanted to go ahead and change out either the front or rear sprocket. Either smaller front or a larger rear, maybe even both. There's a problem with this though. I have a 8mm (T8F) chain & I can't find either sprocket (front/rear) of a different size than stock for the 8mm chain. Any info about obtaining these sprockets would be greatly appreciated.
I also thought maybe I could change the "reduction" sprockets, I believe they're 05T sprockets/chain...,...,...**** off about that, I didn't look to see what they were (tooth count) before I closed it up this evening after the work. Once again, a point in the right direction for that would be cool too.
I know I may just end up leaving the gearing stock because I can't find what I want. The bike coming out of a tight corner is a dog though. It like bogs down & doesn't want to get us (bike/me) moving & I kind of don't really like it.
Also, these jerks have the engine/rear wheel setup so I can't even just change from the gear reduction to a regular clutch everything will be out of whack by a couple inches.

IDK, regroup I guess & think of something else...

Heres what you need to do to get that thing more powerful.....


Bump the compression by shaving the head .010"...

Lap the valves in the head so they seal better...Ö..

Re-grind the side profile of the camshaft lobe so the valves open and shut faster...Ö..

Put Z50 Honda carb or a 15mm WYK carb that's 3 way adjustable.........Ö..Swap out carb studs for sockethead screws





Put shorty exhaust header or gut the stock muffler box...Ö


Sounds like you did a killer job on the trans.....very nice.

Believe me when I say youre better off with the trans....Finding a rear sprocket in TF-8mm that's large enough to get the correct gear ratio is gonna be futile without going the custom sprocket route...ÖÖ..

The engines are pretty easy to relocate...........

As far as the sprockets look up 49cc front sprockets tf-8mm and lok up 47cc pocketbike TF-8mm rear sprockets...

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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I appreciate the advice, for sure. Also thanks for the compliment on the little gear box.
I don’t have access to any kind of machining equipment, although I have looked into one of those mini lathes, but I didn’t actually buy one because...track days.
The other bad part of that, is I seriously have never dove into an engine shaving stuff down. It’s not that I don’t think I could do it, because I believe I could. I just don’t have that kind of experience. Best I’ve done & I’ve always done well at is some port/polish work here and there & that was just on some parts that I bought extra of, because I know you can mess things up trying to do something cool.
I absolutely think it would be cool to be a machinist, or at least have more experience in doing stuff like that, cause you can do some magic with an engine & I love that stuff! Maybe a venture for another time.
I could go ahead and just get the engine out of the bike and see what can/can’t actually be done with it. It’s hard to see a lot of stuff with it jammed in that little frame. This thing is a Luyuan 40cc 4stroke & it’s a weird looking bird. Well, weird looking as in, while the bike was on its way, I did a fair amount of “digging around” for info as I like to know what I’m about to have. The only thing this engine has in common with most of the stuff I’ve seen so far is the basic shape/setup is the same. Other than that I have said “***” a few times when I got the bike.
I think for now, I’m just going to ride her how she is, Because pretty soon it’s going to be **** off cold outside. When it gets to where I don’t feel like riding because of the weather, I’m definitely going to rip the engine out of this thing & get the plastic cover off so I can see more of what’s possible with it.
I’ll end up doing something, but idk what exactly yet.
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Re: I've got a question...

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I appreciate the advice, for sure. Also thanks for the compliment on the little gear box.
I donít have access to any kind of machining equipment, although I have looked into one of those mini lathes, but I didnít actually buy one because...track days.
The other bad part of that, is I seriously have never dove into an engine shaving stuff down. Itís not that I donít think I could do it, because I believe I could. I just donít have that kind of experience. Best Iíve done & Iíve always done well at is some port/polish work here and there & that was just on some parts that I bought extra of, because I know you can mess things up trying to do something cool.
I absolutely think it would be cool to be a machinist, or at least have more experience in doing stuff like that, cause you can do some magic with an engine & I love that stuff! Maybe a venture for another time.
I could go ahead and just get the engine out of the bike and see what can/canít actually be done with it. Itís hard to see a lot of stuff with it jammed in that little frame. This thing is a Luyuan 40cc 4stroke & itís a weird looking bird. Well, weird looking as in, while the bike was on its way, I did a fair amount of ďdigging aroundĒ for info as I like to know what Iím about to have. The only thing this engine has in common with most of the stuff Iíve seen so far is the basic shape/setup is the same. Other than that I have said ď***Ē a few times when I got the bike.
I think for now, Iím just going to ride her how she is, Because pretty soon itís going to be **** off cold outside. When it gets to where I donít feel like riding because of the weather, Iím definitely going to rip the engine out of this thing & get the plastic cover off so I can see more of whatís possible with it.
Iíll end up doing something, but idk what exactly yet.
You dont need a milling machine to shave off .010...Just some glass and some sandpaper......

I hardky ever use tools ither than handtools to work on these small engines....

On this 2 pc cylinder I did the handchop from 1pc to 2pc with just a simple handsaw a flat surface also a wetstone........




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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Arrow Re: I've got a question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPilot View Post
I appreciate the advice, for sure. Also thanks for the compliment on the little gear box.
I donít have access to any kind of machining equipment, although I have looked into one of those mini lathes, but I didnít actually buy one because...track days.
The other bad part of that, is I seriously have never dove into an engine shaving stuff down. Itís not that I donít think I could do it, because I believe I could. I just donít have that kind of experience. Best Iíve done & Iíve always done well at is some port/polish work here and there & that was just on some parts that I bought extra of, because I know you can mess things up trying to do something cool.
I absolutely think it would be cool to be a machinist, or at least have more experience in doing stuff like that, cause you can do some magic with an engine & I love that stuff! Maybe a venture for another time.
I could go ahead and just get the engine out of the bike and see what can/canít actually be done with it. Itís hard to see a lot of stuff with it jammed in that little frame. This thing is a Luyuan 40cc 4stroke & itís a weird looking bird. Well, weird looking as in, while the bike was on its way, I did a fair amount of ďdigging aroundĒ for info as I like to know what Iím about to have. The only thing this engine has in common with most of the stuff Iíve seen so far is the basic shape/setup is the same. Other than that I have said ď***Ē a few times when I got the bike.
I think for now, Iím just going to ride her how she is, Because pretty soon itís going to be **** off cold outside. When it gets to where I donít feel like riding because of the weather, Iím definitely going to rip the engine out of this thing & get the plastic cover off so I can see more of whatís possible with it.
Iíll end up doing something, but idk what exactly yet.
You dont need a milling machine to work on these small engines....Theyre simple..


I do all my work with handtools,,,,,,It helps to keep costs down...


I make my 1pc cylinder into 2pc cylinders with a hacksaw a flat surface with sandpaper and a wetstone..\








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Last edited by CAM2; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:01 AM.
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