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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Crank seals?!

Hey all, I used to be on this forum Years ago under the name Lano. Still have the same HF cag, I got it around 2002-2005 as a gift from my uncle( obviously replaced almost everything lol)
So I bought these “crank seals” for my bike and they don’t fit, there is to much play/ they are to small. It slides on the crank fine but it doesn’t seal, I can wiggle them around, I know that won’t work. They were the right size too. (15x24x7)
These are the ones I bought
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Oil-...g/263753752222
These are the new ones I plan on getting, they should fit because they are made for the bike right? Even tho they are the same size?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Cran...-/152980887587

Thanks in aadvance!
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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To make it more clear, when I say I can wiggle them around, I’m talking about when the crank is not inside the case. The seals are supposed to fit in there tight but with the seals I purchased there is way to much wiggle room ( I can see the bearing on the other side! )
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020
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Re: Crank seals?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Hey all, I used to be on this forum Years ago under the name Lano. Still have the same HF cag, I got it around 2002-2005 as a gift from my uncle( obviously replaced almost everything lol)
So I bought these “crank seals” for my bike and they don’t fit, there is to much play/ they are to small. It slides on the crank fine but it doesn’t seal, I can wiggle them around, I know that won’t work. They were the right size too. (15x24x7)
These are the ones I bought
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Oil-...g/263753752222
These are the new ones I plan on getting, they should fit because they are made for the bike right? Even tho they are the same size?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Cran...-/152980887587

Thanks in aadvance!
Welcome back ...Those seals are the wrong ones...……….

You need these...……..SKF #5808...……Theyre lower drag seals too...



stock seal is on the left...SKF and Stihl n the right...…


Last edited by CAM2; 03-02-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Hey all, I used to be on this forum Years ago under the name Lano. Still have the same HF cag, I got it around 2002-2005 as a gift from my uncle( obviously replaced almost everything lol)
So I bought these “crank seals” for my bike and they don’t fit, there is to much play/ they are to small. It slides on the crank fine but it doesn’t seal, I can wiggle them around, I know that won’t work. They were the right size too. (15x24x7)
These are the ones I bought
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Oil-...g/263753752222
These are the new ones I plan on getting, they should fit because they are made for the bike right? Even tho they are the same size?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Cran...-/152980887587

Thanks in aadvance!
Welcome back ...Those seals are the wrong ones...……….

You need these...……..SKF #5808...……Theyre lower drag seals too...



stock seal is on the left...SKF and Stihl n the right...…


Ok, thanks a lot Cam! I’m having trouble finding the skf #5808, do you know if the other seals I linked would work? The generic ones?
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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020
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Re: Crank seals?!

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Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Ok, thanks a lot Cam! I’m having trouble finding the skf #5808, do you know if the other seals I linked would work? The generic ones?
Heres a bunch of links...They cost a lil more than the generic but is way better quality…

The picture for the SKF seal isn't accurate but totally the right seal......

https://www.amazon.com/SKF-Small-Sty...3185197&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Haishine-Cran...WRED24H7NJE4WF

https://www.amazon.com/Seal-STIHL-MS...9&sr=8-1-fkmr2

https://www.amazon.com/ATVATP-STIHL-...7&sr=8-2-fkmr0

https://www.amazon.com/shiosheng-50P...6&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Last edited by CAM2; 03-02-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Ok, thanks a lot Cam! I’m having trouble finding the skf #5808, do you know if the other seals I linked would work? The generic ones?
Heres a bunch of links...They cost a lil more than the generic but is way better quality…

The picture for the SKF seal isn't accurate but totally the right seal......

https://www.amazon.com/SKF-Small-Sty...3185197&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Haishine-Cran...WRED24H7NJE4WF

https://www.amazon.com/Seal-STIHL-MS...9&sr=8-1-fkmr2

https://www.amazon.com/ATVATP-STIHL-...7&sr=8-2-fkmr0

https://www.amazon.com/shiosheng-50P...6&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Wow, thanks a lot! Going above and beyond man lol. On a budget so went with the Hicello 10 pack for 7 bucks! I sooo hope they fit! Lol. Do you know why those old seals didn’t work? Maybe not meant to seal a crank?
I have one of Sams 44mm stocker head kits. Never got it tuned right back in the day, but I’m a little more knowledgeable now and look forward to getting it running good. Gonna wait for these seals then got some Black Rtv for the cylinder, Thanks again!
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020
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Re: Crank seals?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Wow, thanks a lot! Going above and beyond man lol. On a budget so went with the Hicello 10 pack for 7 bucks! I sooo hope they fit! Lol. Do you know why those old seals didn’t work? Maybe not meant to seal a crank?
I have one of Sams 44mm stocker head kits. Never got it tuned right back in the day, but I’m a little more knowledgeable now and look forward to getting it running good. Gonna wait for these seals then got some Black Rtv for the cylinder, Thanks again!
Theres a difference between 24 and 25mm's...…………..LOL

RTV isn't good ,,,Get Permatex motoseal…

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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020
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Re: Crank seals?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Wow, thanks a lot! Going above and beyond man lol. On a budget so went with the Hicello 10 pack for 7 bucks! I sooo hope they fit! Lol. Do you know why those old seals didn’t work? Maybe not meant to seal a crank?
I have one of Sams 44mm stocker head kits. Never got it tuned right back in the day, but I’m a little more knowledgeable now and look forward to getting it running good. Gonna wait for these seals then got some Black Rtv for the cylinder, Thanks again!
Do you mind posting up a pic of the cylinder...…….?

Theres another member who's curious as to what sams work looks like...……

Ifyou don't mind doing some measurements and posting them too..Thanks...……….

Also how you built the engine the first time would be appreciated..

First thing I'd do is smooth and improve the fit and flow inside the engine to improve velocity which in-turn produces real power..

You've been gone a lil while and since then lots of relevations that Ive been slowly bringing to light the last 6-7 years especially the ones that have popped-up as to the identities of the engines the Chinese used and where they actually come from also how to really mod them for real power and performance..

Last edited by CAM2; 03-02-2020 at 06:21 PM.
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Wow, thanks a lot! Going above and beyond man lol. On a budget so went with the Hicello 10 pack for 7 bucks! I sooo hope they fit! Lol. Do you know why those old seals didn’t work? Maybe not meant to seal a crank?
I have one of Sams 44mm stocker head kits. Never got it tuned right back in the day, but I’m a little more knowledgeable now and look forward to getting it running good. Gonna wait for these seals then got some Black Rtv for the cylinder, Thanks again!
Do you mind posting up a pic of the cylinder...…….?

Theres another member who's curious as to what sams work looks like...……

Ifyou don't mind doing some measurements and posting them too..Thanks...……….

Also how you built the engine the first time would be appreciated..

First thing I'd do is smooth and improve the fit and flow inside the engine to improve velocity which in-turn produces real power..

You've been gone a lil while and since then lots of relevations that Ive been slowly bringing to light the last 6-7 years especially the ones that have popped-up as to the identities of the engines the Chinese used and where they actually come from also how to really mod them for real power and performance..
Yea I know things have changed because I did abit of old research and ended getting a lot of the wrong stuff now lol : ( have a brand new unused tube of black RTV. My build when I just got the head kit is going to be my current build.
It consisted/will consist of
-44m pancake air filter with velocity stack
-stock carb bored out to 9/16 with the mouth tapered out/intake to match( don’t remember what jet I used, plan on starting with 72 and needle at lowest/5th notch)
-Reeds cut back and grinded up higher
-Did the petcock mod along with drilled the carb gas intake bigger ( the hole that goes downward at a angle)
-bigger fuel lines and fuel filter, drilled tank hole a little bigger
- had a lightened flywheel with every other fin chopped off.( looks/ I did a horrible job so I’m going to use a extra stock one I have now)

That’s about it. I will post pictures of the cylinder, let me know if you need different angles. I’m also not sure how to go about measuring it.
Attached Images
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Oh yea, also have a aluminum clutch that I lightened along with hp springs
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Re: Crank seals?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Yea I know things have changed because I did abit of old research and ended getting a lot of the wrong stuff now lol : ( have a brand new unused tube of black RTV. My build when I just got the head kit is going to be my current build.
It consisted/will consist of
-44m pancake air filter with velocity stack
-stock carb bored out to 9/16 with the mouth tapered out/intake to match( don’t remember what jet I used, plan on starting with 72 and needle at lowest/5th notch)
-Reeds cut back and grinded up higher
-Did the petcock mod along with drilled the carb gas intake bigger ( the hole that goes downward at a angle)
-bigger fuel lines and fuel filter, drilled tank hole a little bigger
- had a lightened flywheel with every other fin chopped off.( looks/ I did a horrible job so I’m going to use a extra stock one I have now)

That’s about it. I will post pictures of the cylinder, let me know if you need different angles. I’m also not sure how to go about measuring it.
Thanks for the pics......Theyre on the $$$...Thanks....now I have to steer him this way....


As far as the info lets start with the basics...These engines are taken from tools like augers,brushcutters and trashpumps...they were never designed for rideables and the rules of building a performance 2 stroker using methods bt Gordon Jennings doesn't and wont work in these engines the way they do in snowmobile/jetski and MX bike 2 stroke engines.......

Opening the reed petals up too wide changes the timingbut it really doesn't enhance fuel flow as much as it retards intake timing...Theres a right way to do the mod and just doing it without doing a before and after bolted into half an engine case and knowing what its gonna do....

For the reeds if you notice they open up against the rotation of the crank....

This is the mod that really and truly adds velocity and performance....

The petal flap should only be only 1-2mm's more open..In small cc engines a small amount makes a big difference when done right and starts to subtract as you go past that point rendering the mod useless and sometimes a defecit..

If you look at the reed passage on my avatar notice how far the 4 reeds open on a 39cc engine...……...now double one side and that's how far a 2 petal should open..



Heres a billet case I modded for EPR....I gave his case the 690 gold case mod by shortening the intake runner by a lil over 11mm's..




This is how the reedplate should be modded...This again enhances velocity while reducing turbulence...


Attached Images
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File Type: jpg IMG_20191112_201753843.jpg (507.7 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by CAM2; 03-02-2020 at 08:14 PM.
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
Yea I know things have changed because I did abit of old research and ended getting a lot of the wrong stuff now lol : ( have a brand new unused tube of black RTV. My build when I just got the head kit is going to be my current build.
It consisted/will consist of
-44m pancake air filter with velocity stack
-stock carb bored out to 9/16 with the mouth tapered out/intake to match( don’t remember what jet I used, plan on starting with 72 and needle at lowest/5th notch)
-Reeds cut back and grinded up higher
-Did the petcock mod along with drilled the carb gas intake bigger ( the hole that goes downward at a angle)
-bigger fuel lines and fuel filter, drilled tank hole a little bigger
- had a lightened flywheel with every other fin chopped off.( looks/ I did a horrible job so I’m going to use a extra stock one I have now)

That’s about it. I will post pictures of the cylinder, let me know if you need different angles. I’m also not sure how to go about measuring it.
Thanks for the pics......Theyre on the $$$...Thanks....now I have to steer him this way....


As far as the info lets start with the basics...These engines are taken from tools like augers,brushcutters and trashpumps...they were never designed for rideables and the rules of building a performance 2 stroker using methods bt Gordon Jennings doesn't and wont work in these engines the way they do in snowmobile/jetski and MX bike 2 stroke engines.......

Opening the reed petals up too wide changes the timingbut it really doesn't enhance fuel flow as much as it retards intake timing...Theres a right way to do the mod and just doing it without doing a before and after bolted into half an engine case and knowing what its gonna do....

For the reeds if you notice they open up against the rotation of the crank....

This is the mod that really and truly adds velocity and performance....




This is how the reedplate should be modded...This again enhances velocity while reducing turbulence...


Wow, I did my reeds years ago and they look terrible! This could have been one reason why I couldn’t get my bike to run correctly.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg DE727610-1B1D-495E-B5E0-78D32824F079_1583201349970.jpeg (232.0 KB, 6 views)
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File Type: jpeg 42FF6738-0C60-41D2-8B57-266C30984A39_1583201437230.jpeg (141.7 KB, 6 views)
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Re: Crank seals?!

I just bought 2 sets of 10 of the blue crank seals, 5 Stars, got to be better than stock.
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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I think I’m going to redo my reed stops and give the reed plate mod a go, and pickup some Permatex motoseal
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Re: Crank seals?!

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Wow, I did my reeds years ago and they look terrible! This could have been one reason why I couldn’t get my bike to run correctly.

Yep seems so......You should definitely keep that pic as a guide of how not to mod your reedstopper……LOL
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Re: Crank seals?!

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I think I’m going to redo my reed stops and give the reed plate mod a go, and pickup some Permatex motoseal
What did you do for a crank also flywheel and reed type plus is there a rocket key or not? ,

Have you checked the crank for trueness and have you checked balance factor of the rotating assembly to make sure its not gonna shake apart?

Do you have the skills to smooth and properly fit the head to the crankcase?





Last edited by CAM2; 03-02-2020 at 09:38 PM.
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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuz4 View Post
I think I’m going to redo my reed stops and give the reed plate mod a go, and pickup some Permatex motoseal
What did you do for a crank also flywheel and reed type plus is there a rocket key or not? ,

Have you checked the crank for trueness and have you checked balance factor of the rotating assembly to make sure its not gonna shake apart?

Do you have the skills to smooth and properly fit the head to the crankcase?




Stock 10mm crank, stock flywheel, carbon fiber reeds, stock woodruff key.

Did not check crank for trueness and Balance ( think this one is above my pay grade LOL )

I would like to mod the case, just don’t really know exactly what’s going on, I see a few things smoothed out in those pictures. I only have 3 dremel attachments atm. If I can do it with these I will give it a go if not, I’ll wait until I break the engine down again in the future.

Have not rode this thing in years, eager to get a quick little ride in lol.
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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020 Thread Starter
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My bike sat in pieces in a crate for years until I remembered I had a pocket bike lol. it’s been my go to hobby for the past 2 weeks, but yea if you think I can “mod” the case with those attachments I will like to do it!
Keep forgetting stuff but also have a china knockoff Jetpro
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Re: Crank seals?!

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Stock 10mm crank, stock flywheel, carbon fiber reeds, stock woodruff key.

Did not check crank for trueness and Balance ( think this one is above my pay grade LOL )

I would like to mod the case, just don’t really know exactly what’s going on, I see a few things smoothed out in those pictures. I only have 3 dremel attachments atm. If I can do it with these I will give it a go if not, I’ll wait until I break the engine down again in the future.

Have not rode this thing in years, eager to get a quick little ride in lol.
Well seeings youre not gonna be doing assembly line type engine builds you can get away with the cheap harbor freight rotary tool and buying some cutter tools from ebay to speed the process up......

https://www.harborfreight.com/rotary...-pc-63235.html

Hand files and sandpaper works too.....



https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-1-8-S...3470%7Ciid%3A1

Last edited by CAM2; 03-03-2020 at 10:40 AM.
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Re: Crank seals?!

The $10 dremel is a joke, its for wood, the $25 one you can get on sale as cheap as $18 and a $30 set of real cutters, I have 2 of them and another brand. Different cutters in each one, saves you time not having to change them all the time.
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