Double clutch rediction gearbox - Page 2 - Pocket Bike Forum - Mini Bikes
 6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Id go back to without it as its not going to work as in theory...



When you sandwich one of those between two objects where one side spins and the other is stationary and pressure is exerted youll have two forces at work...One force will try to spin the bearings on their axis and another force is gonna try to spin them to the side..Only way to contnteract the action is by stacking two bearings with a thin shim in-between...



The side spin will prevail and when that happens one side of the bearing will experience the bearings spinning in an opposite way adding a stymie to the spinning action and damage to the bearing....



It would just be better trying out using some thinner teflon or low friction stainless shim washers and seeing how its gonna work first.....
I was thinking the same first but the axle will not move the to other direction unless if i walk backwards with the dirtbike which wont be with high rotation speed and allot of forces,

infact the clutch should neither be engaged when the engine is running at stationairy rpm's..

I also have cutted a ring grove in the sprocket so the bearings sit a bit integrated in the sprocket/clutch.

And it spins great on the shaft now!

I did ran in to another issue now though that i saw comming to be honest,
Which is the chain who is going diagonal..

This could be fixed by integrating the thrustbearing deeper in to the sprocket side of the sprocket/clutch.

I will make some pictures soon of this issue.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

I mounted everything together.

Now i need to see if i need to shorten the shaft or not and cut the groves for the front sprocket.

Im not so happy with the stacked gearbox covers. I rather had one solid cover to have a solid and strong design, this one feels a bit dodgy. Probably also caused by the m5 bolts, i will tap in m6 to be sure..

Also it might get more solid when it is mounted on my dirt bike because there are 2 more bolts that are going to hold the total package.


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
BUILDEM,WRECKEM,REBUILDEM
 
CAM2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,832
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

It looks good and about ready to test out...

Have you thought about trying to brazen them together to make 1 cover using those flux core rods that does aluminum?


Even JB Weld will stiffen things up a lil more too...

Cut
Up
Stuff
To
Obtain
Masterpiece

Last edited by CAM2; 06-24-2019 at 11:56 AM.
CAM2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
It looks good and about ready to test out...



Have you thought about trying to brazen them together to make 1 cover using those flux core rods that does aluminum?





Even JB Weld will stiffen things up a lil more too...
The brazing is a good idea but i cant find these brazing rods for aluminium, jb weld would probably break off unless if i fill it up completly but that would be a very heavy and expensive solution,

Oh btw i finally got my car back with the new short block engine, but it runs like total **** because the mechanic did not listen to me of what i have to say.. and overlooked important stuff like 2 wires where the isolation is gone and touches...

The biggest problem with my car is that it is from my parrents company and they come in play because they are paying for the repair and ****** everything up. If i would do it my way then it would be with my aftermarket intake manifold from nubworks and stand alone engine management to get rid of all the ****ty **** bugs and issues that you get when modding a modern car with performance parts.

Sorry that i write this frustration out here but not many people understand my plans and i know most guys here do understand what im talking about..

Anyway long story short, i have some work to do on my car first and then ill be back asap on my double clutch project

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
BUILDEM,WRECKEM,REBUILDEM
 
CAM2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,832
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcfish90 View Post
The brazing is a good idea but i cant find these brazing rods for aluminium, jb weld would probably break off unless if i fill it up completly but that would be a very heavy and expensive solution,

Oh btw i finally got my car back with the new short block engine, but it runs like total **** because the mechanic did not listen to me of what i have to say.. and overlooked important stuff like 2 wires where the isolation is gone and touches...

The biggest problem with my car is that it is from my parrents company and they come in play because they are paying for the repair and ****** everything up. If i would do it my way then it would be with my aftermarket intake manifold from nubworks and stand alone engine management to get rid of all the ****ty **** bugs and issues that you get when modding a modern car with performance parts.

Sorry that i write this frustration out here but not many people understand my plans and i know most guys here do understand what im talking about..

Anyway long story short, i have some work to do on my car first and then ill be back asap on my double clutch project

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Sounds good....I get your frustration...I've been waiting on parts for my Range Rover from Europe for a couple months now...what sux is you can't get the parts I need in the US....I was told it was "no problem"....Houston..We have a problem....lol

The 5.0 Sc was kicking azz and taking names but like all projects theres always room for improvement so Im swapping in a twin turbo LS chevy....LOL

Hardest part was figuring a way around all the modules and making piggyback harnesses.....I remapped some modules to trick them into believing Im running a diesel this way alls needed is Tach signal and security handshake to achieve compatability meld.....LOL

Usually with cars with wiring problems its sometimes best to disconnect the harness at the firewall and trace every pin out to its termination points...

You mentioned shortblock...Who installed the head and set the timing?...Theres a possibility timing could be off too....

Also your computer may need to be reflashed especially if they changed a bunch of sensors ...Its easy to lose track of and forget to hook up a ground strap too......

I hope your problems are easy to fix/figure out.....I wanna hear the results of this double clutch setup..

Cut
Up
Stuff
To
Obtain
Masterpiece

Last edited by CAM2; 06-24-2019 at 06:41 PM.
CAM2 is offline  
post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Sounds good....I get your frustration...I've been waiting on parts for my Range Rover from Europe for a couple months now...what sux is you can't get the parts I need in the US....I was told it was "no problem"....Houston..We have a problem....lol



The 5.0 Sc was kicking azz and taking names but like all projects theres always room for improvement so Im swapping in a twin turbo LS chevy....LOL



Hardest part was figuring a way around all the modules and making piggyback harnesses.....I remapped some modules to trick them into believing Im running a diesel this way alls needed is Tach signal and security handshake to achieve compatability meld.....LOL



Usually with cars with wiring problems its sometimes best to disconnect the harness at the firewall and trace every pin out to its termination points...



You mentioned shortblock...Who installed the head and set the timing?...Theres a possibility timing could be off too....



Also your computer may need to be reflashed especially if they changed a bunch of sensors ...Its easy to lose track of and forget to hook up a ground strap too......



I hope your problems are easy to fix/figure out.....I wanna hear the results of this double clutch setup..
Thanks, well im going to re install the nubworks manifold and that should sort out the squeeking air leak noise.. i do still need to have a friend welding some fuel rail supports to not have the injectors popping out of it.. i hope that i can do it this weekend or even earlyier..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Since you live in Europe, there is no H/F Tools where I got my alum rod. I would check out eBay.com.eu and look for welding rod.
Rcfish90 likes this.

Empty Pockets Racing: The difficult we do, the impossible takes longer.....
EPR is offline  
Super Moderator
 
MrKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Age: 39
Posts: 1,398
Garage
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/sh...2ehtml#aDURA50
Rcfish90 likes this.

Faster then a speeding E Revo
MrKitty is offline  
post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Thanks,
I just ordered 5 durafix alu rods but from a dutch website because uk is expensive as hell with their british pounds.

I hope it works as great as in the explained video

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
BUILDEM,WRECKEM,REBUILDEM
 
CAM2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,832
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcfish90 View Post
Thanks,
I just ordered 5 durafix alu rods but from a dutch website because uk is expensive as hell with their british pOunces.

I hope it works as great as in the explained video

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk

I always use a lil extra flux to get it to flow good and rough up the area with 80 grit or I also use my media blaster cabinet.

The flux I use is called BRAZING FLUX.it helps slot in gauging the proper heat needed.....

I also sometimes keep the part hot on top of a cheap dollar store hot plate....

You mentioned you had a friend with a welder....can he weld aluminum?

Cut
Up
Stuff
To
Obtain
Masterpiece

Last edited by CAM2; 06-27-2019 at 11:00 AM.
CAM2 is offline  
post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019 Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
I always use a lil extra flux to get it to flow good and rough up the area with 80 grit or I also use my media blaster cabinet.



The flux I use is called BRAZING FLUX.it helps slot in gauging the proper heat needed.....



I also sometimes keep the part hot on top of a cheap dollar store hot plate....



You mentioned you had a friend with a welder....can he weld aluminum?
Yes he can, he welds things for helicopters and he customized my intake manifold to add another 4 injectors. Its another friend, not the guy who machines stuff for me

But that was on very clean and naked aluminium, i dont know if he can weld the chinese reduction box aluminium or if he even wants to try to do so.

Anyway, i will try the alu brazing rods first. i might ask this friend to weld it if that doesnt work.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Sorry for the waiting..

I made the clutch reduction box and everything stays in place, but i got one big problem..

What seemed to work in theory doesnt happen in reality.

The secondary clutch just doesnt engage well, i tryed to flip the clutch arms in every posible way and with and without springs to see if it would grab better, nothing worked

Perhaps adding weight to the arms might help, what do you guys think?

(Picture was during the testing process of clutch arm positions)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcfish90 View Post
Sorry for the waiting..

I made the clutch reduction box and everything stays in place, but i got one big problem..

What seemed to work in theory doesnt happen in reality.

The secondary clutch just doesnt engage well, i tryed to flip the clutch arms in every posible way and with and without springs to see if it would grab better, nothing worked

Perhaps adding weight to the arms might help, what do you guys think?

(Picture was during the testing process of clutch arm positions)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
I also forgot to mention that i mesured the clutch in engaged position to be sure the pads will hit the clutch bell for sure and after that i tested a smaller diameter clutch bell.

Nothing worked...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
PBP RACER
 
Chrisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Age: 36
Posts: 150
It won't work because on the second clutch there are to less rpm to engage the clutch, you have a gearbox let's say the gear ration is 1:2,normaly the cage clutch engage at 3000rpm with the gearbox there are at the second clutch only 1500rpm, you know how I mean?

Get your kick with 2 stroke mix
Chrisi is offline  
post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
BUILDEM,WRECKEM,REBUILDEM
 
CAM2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,832
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisi View Post
It won't work because on the second clutch there are to less rpm to engage the clutch, you have a gearbox let's say the gear ration is 1:2,normaly the cage clutch engage at 3000rpm with the gearbox there are at the second clutch only 1500rpm, you know how I mean?

I guess you've never saw any of his vids. ..His engine is 70cc and capable of spinning above 10k rpms ...



If he adds about half an ounce to an ounce to each arm it will add more pad pressure inside the clutchbell

It also appears that he may have a clearance issue problem between the pad where the spring hole is and the center which is stopping the pads from throwing out fully.....

If he grinds off the spring holes or lathes down the center a lil the second clutch will throw out alot better ..

Cut
Up
Stuff
To
Obtain
Masterpiece

Last edited by CAM2; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:05 PM.
CAM2 is offline  
post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
PBP RACER
 
Chrisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Age: 36
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisi View Post
It won't work because on the second clutch there are to less rpm to engage the clutch, you have a gearbox let's say the gear ration is 1:2,normaly the cage clutch engage at 3000rpm with the gearbox there are at the second clutch only 1500rpm, you know how I mean?

I guess you've never saw any of his vids. ..His engine is 70cc and capable of spinning above 10k rpms ...



If he adds about half an ounce to an ounce to each arm it will add more pad pressure inside the clutchbell

It also appears that he may have a clearance issue problem between the pad where the spring hole is and the center which is stopping the pads from throwing out fully.....

If he grinds off the spring holes or lathes down the center a lil the second clutch will throw out alot better ..
Yes cam that's maybe right but I think it won't work because the gear ration and the engaging rpm of the second clutch.
I try to explain again, when the first clutch engage at 3000rpm than starts the second clutch to turn, so you need 6000rpm on the engine to engage the second clutch but only at a gear ration of 1:2 and I think the gear ration is higher than 1:2.

Get your kick with 2 stroke mix
Chrisi is offline  
post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisi View Post
Yes cam that's maybe right but I think it won't work because the gear ration and the engaging rpm of the second clutch.
I try to explain again, when the first clutch engage at 3000rpm than starts the second clutch to turn, so you need 6000rpm on the engine to engage the second clutch but only at a gear ration of 1:2 and I think the gear ration is higher than 1:2.
Yes but if the clutch is engaged @ 3k it will spin 3k rpm i supose

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

I know that i custom fitted a t8f 11t sprocket in the front of the reduction gearbox, i dont know how much tooth the rear sprocket has but i think + - 30 tooth, the engine it self has no problems at al for reaching 12,000 rpm, infact its in that rpm range that it has the most power

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
PBP RACER
 
Chrisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Age: 36
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcfish90 View Post
I know that i custom fitted a t8f 11t sprocket in the front of the reduction gearbox, i dont know how much tooth the rear sprocket has but i think + - 30 tooth, the engine it self has no problems at al for reaching 12,000 rpm, infact its in that rpm range that it has the most power

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Yes and that's the problem when you have 11 toth in the front and 30+- at the rear your second clutch start to engage at 9000rpm of the engine because there is a gear ration of 1:3.

Get your kick with 2 stroke mix
Chrisi is offline  
post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
PBP SENIOR MEMBER
 
Rcfish90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 29
Posts: 1,044
Re: Double clutch rediction gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisi View Post
Yes and that's the problem when you have 11 toth in the front and 30+- at the rear your second clutch start to engage at 9000rpm of the engine because there is a gear ration of 1:3.
I supose some extra weight on the clutch arms might help, i will try to add weight and see what happens, will be tricky though..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk
Rcfish90 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pocket Bike Forum - Mini Bikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Pocketbike Forums Replies Last Post
My gearbox it *****ed up 1991pocketspeed 4Stroke Midbikes 9 02-09-2008 08:05 PM
double clutch ghost cag 4Stroke Midbikes 6 08-16-2006 01:53 PM
gearbox fluid machinehead103 Chat 1 12-18-2005 01:16 PM
Grrrrrrr, gearbox is stuffed!! krsone 4Stroke Midbikes 2 03-12-2005 04:48 AM
Gearbox/Chainbox Oil (non cvt) db54 2Stroke Midbikes 12 11-03-2004 06:50 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome