fuel mixture carb help

just trying to figure out whats happenning. so the carbs telling me, over and over, leaner pilot. i play with the mixture screw, and it gets to where its fully closed and i have the highest idle. that says leaner pilot. but what does really closing the mixture off do?

and while this is doing this, my temperatures go to 180 185 idle, and went i ride around, it takes off pretty nice, nice sort of snap. ive got a video. im going to put it. actually 2. ones a ride. in the second, i got it to snap nice. but riding down the road, ive got too high of a main jet in. right around 1/3 throttle it kicks in, and so does this fllooding. it will flood in at 1/2 throttle. so much, that it has to be shut off to have the same power as it did before. as in take off and running really well. taking off good. after going past half throttle, if i dont let it clear out for a few minutes, it just bogs around. but it almost wheelies me. it has a polini motor on it, and a nice muffler.

so my idle on my carb is telling me leaner pilot, riding down the road, its telling me 1/2 throttle flood, too big main jet. then 1/4 throttle rides fine at first, and runs me at temps of 300 degrees. and idle will run me at 180. stopping the bike, after plaing with the carb a little bit, its cooled down a little quicker. but the idle doesn't cool it down, much like 4 degrees every 4 seconds or 6 degrees. nothing. i cant figure out anything.

does this sound like a leak? what would make it do this?

ive went back over my bike. one spot on the inside of the case halves i thought would leak, on a rebuild, it didnt show it was. it was a little mark, ding on it. took it to a bike shop and they done that for me. got it back like that. didnt send it there like that, but had it in my car for one ride down the road, i was delivering. then i took it out.

so, and before i thought i had poked holes in my oil seals, that go around the crank. found 2 on a leak test. pressurize the case with air, plug holes from intake, exhaust, .. check for leaking air and use soap to find them. oil seal. so i rebuild it. the reed cage from before was leaking so i fixed it up, from before. didnt think it was leaking. checked awhile ago, wasnt using soapy enough bubble stuff. was redoing it because of this. oh yea i cant actually seal it off or had a working leak test. becaues i dont see no bubbles and my seals seem to leak. now at one time it seemed the only leaking was the oil seal. but now i know the reed was leaking. i thougt it was sealed other than that. awhile ago, leak test. found small bubbles near reed cage. so i cahnged it and the manifold to a more solid one out. so no leaks there, shouldnt be. also starter fluid from before gave me no increase in rpm. and after also, there is no increase in rpm. ok, so found the leaks around reed cage, switched it. tried a leak test but my plug started leaking in the middle then i just went ahhhh.

case halves are sealed. but i can't get bubbles, i checked before and didnt see no bubbles. having problems not soapy enough bubble solution. but when i took the case halves apart they didnt look like they where leaking. what retry this whole thing?

haha. so case halves should be good. oil seals are good, installed good, no leaks, no bubbles, cant hardly get bubbles. new seal. and no leaks from before. i was just thinking my plugs where not sealed. i tried to get stuff to bubble.

manifold reed cage should be good. i checked the base gasket, just made it, its paper, should be good. didnt see nothing. i watched aroudn it. thats when i seen the reed cage leak. head gasket should be good. ??

well. so does this carb sound like its leaking air? sound like a bad carb? where i bouhgt it said theyd take it back, but i cant' find out anything on it, and the local carb guy i know, just went on a week vacation. i can make this bike run, justtemps are too hot.

and before, when i had all them leaks. i was using a different muffler. all thats sort of really happenedis my jet sizes have came down after finding the leaks. but. i ran a really rich needle. and just had it flood until it got to main jet, then ride. and let the flooding cool it down. idle temps stayed at 180, if it was just started, it would go to 145. now flooring i had problems like 390 sometimes. i got it to where 360 was max. then id flood it out over and over. could ride down the road some though. but usually after letting off the throttle it got down to 260 pretty quick then after 20 seconds or 30.. 220 degrees.

these temps seem right.

but that was with leaks and an over rich needle

now im overrich main jet. and 1/4 throttle is burning the motor up.

help

please help me with this carb. can someone listen to this and tell me what it sounds like? im just trying to tune the thing.
i know that any air behind the slide is good, bigger carb, air before the slide is bad, air leak. so. i was trying to figure out what could be leaking here, or something.

so i got a video. it shows one of the weird things my carb does.

it does this, when you idle it. i got 2 videos. 1 is just a ride, its last. the 1st is me tuning. its after the ride. hehe. so the bike is warmed up. i got a cht guage on my bike too. so i show it too in the video. you can see the temps. just in the 1st video, its me tuning. as i idle the bike, its idle is sort of, probasbly not too high. i lower the idle, just trying to get this bike to tune right. so i lower it. as the manual for the carb says, lower pressure from the idle makes the motor pull air from before the slide and before it is where the pressure is, thats what pulls the pilot mixture into themotor. its more there, so thats why the pilots like that. its pulls pressure there later.
ok so thats how it works, and i was trying to..
https://vimeo.com/44081952 watch the video.(its going to take 30 min. ill put the other video there when its done. 30 min wait)
im demostrating it. its a weird thing my bike does. so the first video, actually it was the second i made, shows me lowering the idle stop screw. lowering the idle. then the mixture screw, is totally screwed in. so i turned it out. i didnt ride it like this, i was just messing with it. then the idle doesn't get lower. i thoguht id kill it, but if you do that, it dont do it. in the
2nd video. https://vimeo.com/44082663 '
its me riding. tell me how it sounds. you can watch at the beginning i try to turn out th emix screw for higher idle, but it just lowers. so i just leave the screw out 1 1/2 turns and ride. bah. just check it out. if somebody can help me, htne please. thanks..

ok. ill try to pull my plug, later. and check it. listen to this video. i didnt rev the motor after, but it seemed smoother after i done this little editting on my carb. i think i took it in and let it cool off for a few min but my camera was full.

they say the float is supposed to be flat upside down. they got floats weights? like 4 gram. mine has 4. gram said. adn i think the 2 stroks is supposed to have that. my main jet is overrich. as soon as 1/3 throttle i hear bogging. then 1/2 throttle its spuutering. after i fixed the reed cage leak, the 112 main jet i had before now sputters. i think ive gotten rid of all leaks, just cant figure out how to tune. yea it seems like the pilot is getting screwed. but the hot temps ...

so check out my riding video too. its gonna take a while they make you wait at that site. i take off, i thogut it sounded rich. maybe it is lean. the rich main makes the 1/4 throttle flood out, if you go to half throttle. ill put the liink for the riding video in a while

CAM2 said:

Pull the plug and see the color.....Those PHBG carbs are a pain in the butt to get tuned-in...Theres many ways to adjust them...sounds like you got the float set too lean aswell as the c-clip and possibly be light on the pilot jet aswell..........I ran one of those carbs on my 5 port cag and got it to run so it shouldnt be too hard for you...Good Luck......

Click to expand...

ok. q.
pull plug. later.
many ways to adjust, pain in the butt. which ones to look for.
hehe
float lean. according to .. a quick manual it says float level with carb upside down float, bowl. off. yea thats level. 4 grams, according to some manual, 4 grams is stock. now i havent looked. but i dont remember 3.5. and i think it said 4. ........
c clip light, ok not heavy enough on the, more gas. got it. if i lowered the c clip, raise the needle more gas, richer, the motor just pours smoke out. and wont run. before, with another exhaust, i would run lower needle settings. at the 2nd notch down, it would run hot like now, but it had 2 known leaks. ..ok. but it would get and run to the main jet, then run on it. so i just had ok throttle to 1/8 then a little bit on 1/4 mostly a lot of missing, and then it would get to main jet and run. the rich needle kept it cooler.

so...
ahhh well, i dont know what to do next. check out them vidoes youll see what im talking about. stinking leak down test, i dont think its going to work. .... think it will seal. the reason i didnt do a leak down test, well it messed up after i chjanged the reed block and the intake. the plug i had in leaked in the middle, so i just took it out. and said itll not leak. i just put the reed block and intake the leak was it was bubbling from around teh bottom of the reed block. near the carb. after putting the reed block on. i figured the rest wasnt leaking. ...... well. its got a polini motor on it. i had to change the base gasket got it got scratched. i made one out of paper. its not ripped. i checked around it when i did do base gasket leak test, when i checked it.

fater i ut the new intake on, i put the carb on, and then started it and sprayed starter fluid around the rubber connection on the carb to rubber connection and it didnt do nothing. so. the rubber to intake is like big and flat. and its screwed on. it was near starter fluid.

ok so no leaks ive really seen.

oh yea your last response.
lean on the pilot. .. ok so i just dont know hwere to go here. aahuhhhh,,
if the respose from before. its gotta be fixed.

anyway. after reading this. im saying it should be leaned. your saying it should be richened. watch the video and tell me if you think i should be doing that. im saying leaning is the way it would make it run better. i could like if you watch the video,
the riding video. see how it gets up to temps? so richen it right?

im sayhing lean it out. listen to how it runs. and the main, ..

on the riding video, watch the tuning. then i go down the road. i start to give it a little gas then it takes off, you hear it, hten when i hear it, ashhh it
i gunned it, well, i revved bakc the throttle, and i had just changed main jets too, but it was too big still, and it didnt rev and just pushed back, so i let off and then i try to clear the gas to get it to do it again. trhei cant, you can see as i ride down th eroad. then up the hill, im still letting it ride, its GOING SLOW im going slow, up the hill, then im like, uh floor it. maybe the strain? will heat it up, lean something out make it not flood. cause the 1/4 ....

and it wouldnt run. them are the 2 times you hear me floor it. the rest of the time i ran at 1/4 throtle cause it was runnign hot, over heating.

there, if i richened the other .. i dont know... ***.

ok the tuning video, the otgher one, shows, if it is actually tuning there, where i lowered the rpms to like, what? 800? .. ya. YEA. that the carburetor can be tuned. ?/ so, at 800 rpm idle, well, wehen i turned the screw out 1 1/2 turns out it seemed to want to start quitting, 2 turns out it almost quit. so.. check that video out. the carb shows rich pilot idle. the running shows tuned. maybe, a little rich at idle to 1/4. .. the temps show lean. ?

so i can lean it out or ill blow stuff up. if i lean the idle to 1/4, then it will be even hotter. uh. does my #6 plug have anything to do with this?
and my 1/2 to full throttle needs leaned too. but ok. my 1/1 throttle temps are, just a little high. not really .. therre like 360 last time with last pipe and reed cage leak? still same sort of temps. road last time with rich needle. cant this time, too rich for this pipe. its a high rpm pipe so low rpms rich makes it not run, but its a big carb and big motor.
like 11,000 rpm pipe.

telling people to find calculations without exactly telling them the problem and the variables to be solved or the math equation im needing to use, is totally useless. seems you dont want me to find a squish, just a calculation of it. well with 130 psi, and when i looked with the paper gasket instead of the metal gasket, the bike doesnt really run any differently. i say it raised the clyinder off the piston when its at tdc a little bit. maybe lowered my compression a little bit. at bdc every port is exposed, fine. have any more information?

i mean. if i know half of the math problem then you tell me to get a calculation, its like saying, 1 then the calculation. find it. but 1 is part of the problem. then the calculation i need youto get that. so youve done nothing but not even given me anywhere to go with this. do you mean, just tell me your compuression and check your tdc bdc and make sure your ports are getting covered uncovered. that would be the other part of the calculation, you didnt even tell me what you where going for.
so i got an idea of what type of math problem, not enough info to exactly figure that one out, one part of the problem, then a calculation. that requires the math prolbem to be solved. this is like you give me some of the info i gave you. tell m e i have a stinking problem then leave me with nothing but you can't answer any of my questions and leave off. well please dont come back. this is an example of DISINFOMRATIONN AGENT. i believe all 2 stroke people would rather have you tear your parts up than actually fix anything. what gets them more money? theres my stance, and my backing. see if yo8u can refute me or dont bother and talk some crap to me. wtv

im not getting the pilot circuit to affect teh scooter any. it seems the idle gas is coming from the needle. if i used a w2 needle, which is 2.45mm wide compared to .05mm bigger on the regular usual other jets, im thinking thats for a richening of the pilot. i got the best response as in not overheating from my motor. but it always had these air leaks. so i thoght fix the air leaks, motor will run. fixed air leaks. that w2 needle is too rich. i got a new muffler. so its not a good low power muffler so when i try to take off it sits there and chugs out smoke. i was always over richenning the needle t make the scooter stay at a lower temperture. it ran way to over hot. i found a leak on the oil seal, i had cut it, and the reed cage wsnt sealed. took care of those. i rebuild the bottom end, and when i did, i didnt notice the case leaking anywhere. when i ttry to do a leak test, my plugs leak. so i spray bubbles everyweher trying to cover everything and i keep air in it. not even the seals bubble that are leaking. when i do it. it leaks but nto seen the palce where. well, last test, found bubbles, changed out parts, then tried to test and seen my freeze plug or expanding plug bubbling out from the middle. then i went ah, its fixed. put it back together.

46 pilot. im trying to tune the main jet. 112 in the riding video. w7 stock needle, stock clip. 180 idleing temperatures. if i went to w2 to richen up idle, i cant ride cause of the new muffler it chugs out smoke too rich cant ride. not mjuffflers fault its good rides good, just no low end power and richehn it it kills it.

cant ride it like that, you know. anyway, so. watch the way the tuning of the pilot screw does when i mess with it. the motor was warmed up. i show the cht guage. it flashes occasoinally the max temp of last riding session, and blinks at the bottom so dont get it mixd up in the video. the riding vidoe shows the hot tempartrues i get to in no time. 1/4 throttle maybe 1/3 throttle riding. 280 degrees motor temps in 1/2 mile of riding. ... and the main jet would flood it.

maybe theres not enough pressure to suck in gas at the idle to get the pilot circuit? its like its on idle, but no pilot circuit running, so its on needle circuit and giving me temps. or something. i guess? maybe its the float? im about ready to duck it in water. pressurized and watch for bubbles.

just watch my video and tell me if you know of anyting that wrong.
thanks.

oh yea. 11,000 rpm motor 11,000 rpm pipe. 11hp. 21mm phbg carb, and 21mm bgm pro with reed cage.

if i use a longer taper needle, everything else the same, its the richest one i have, w9 besides the w2, it smokes at 1/4 throttle. i could put the clip at the leanest setting. but then its less needle out at higher throttle. i put on second clip. havnet tried to richen it

i want you to look at my videos. watch them. as you can see, anybody i can not tune at all. and dont know how to and somebody tell me? please? then that or if you watfch it, somethigs terribly wrong and somebody just tell me that somethings wrong so i go and do a leak test. just dont know where to look. but if somethigns wrong somebody tell me. cuae if its working then i cant get it going. and if its not i can't tell. it should tune and theres a way the carbreotor works. just its a pilot screw and not air screw. so i cant get it to work. i know what to do to adjust it, just it doesn't work. thepilot circuit doesnt seem to be affecting anthing. it can flood it out by turning the screw out, 2 and a half turns. sometimes. itll start running worse. itll kill it sometimes. bvut then i turn the screw in and then it doesnt really do nohting. like a lot of pressure? is making it run? but its too messed up, lean.. , to run right. if i was to tune in in that air leaking from somewhere, carb. the 2 1/2 turns out tuned pilot wouldnt tune. ? thats what im kind of thinking. if i could get it to tune at 2 turns, the pressure would make it .... run.... the carb goes on pressures and with the throttle stop closed or close its not getting much pressure behind it. and all the suction is coming from ... the pilot jet hole. on the other side of the slide, motor side. cant figure out how to get it to work. am i running lean? watch the carb work. or ... actually tuning pilot jets on that tuning video, would be.. ? hard. idont know. i dont want to change jets to get that, tuning, running. its hot. anyway. the temps. so thats not it. 180 at idle. 140 i was able to get with a w2 needle, but before i always ran rich, and had to slow down to get temps down. im running a more tuned needle, and getting hot temperatures. but the scooter really seems like its running on the needle. like 1/4 throttle is needle, and idle is going to the needle. and the hot temps but i dont want to set idle high to take off. ..so its lean. and idle dont work. there you go.
dont know wwhat to do?
dont kwo what to do. next step

NO LEAKS.
just checked. 10 minutes forgot about it, came back, no leaks. used really bubbly soap, detergent. showed up my plug leaks then fixed it. got it sealed off and then it didnt leak. the piston was at bottom dead center. 8 pounds of air, no leaks. when the exhaust is on it doesn't leak.

what else should i do here? trying to guess whats going on, .. uh.
carbs got 46pilot a w7 2nd notch down clip needle, and 110 main probably if i jetted it how it is now, would go down to a 108, 105. seems that would run good.

JUST COULD SOMEBODY WATCH THEM VIDEOS. THE MOST ANY PERSON COULD DO IS TAKE A SCREWDRIVER AND DO WHAT I DID. CAN YOU WATCH https://vimeo.com/44081952 AND TELL ME IF YOU SEE IT RUNNING RIGHT? IF YOU CAN SEE THAT ITS RUNNING LEAN, OR RICH. IF YOU CAN TELL. IF YOU CAN TUNE A CARB, THEN PROBABLY YOU DONT NEED TO REPLY. I JUST NEED SOME HELP. IF IT DOESNT SEEM THE CARB WORKS. TELL ME THE GUY AT TREATLAND SAID HED TAKE IT BACK, I NEEED HELP! PLEASE. YOU CAN SEE THE CARB IN A VIDEO THAT I TOOK OF IT. THE MOST ANY MECHANIC I COULD TAKE IT TO WOULD DO WOULD BE TAKE A SCREWDRIVER AND DO WHAT I DID. LOOK AT ME TUNE IT, I TURN IT IN ALMOST EVERY DIRECTION. ***. SOMEBODY HELP.

I SHOWED A WEIRD TRICK IT DOES. HOW ALMOST SHUTTING OFF THE THROTTLE SLIDE MAKES IT RICHEN AND LEAN,

??WHAT SHOULD A FUEL MIX SCREW CARB, (DELLORTO PHBG)DO, WHEN YOU CUT THE FUEL MIXTURE SCREW OFF WHAT DOES THE CARB DO WHEN ITS TUNED RIGHT? **** IM TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. HOW DOES THE CARB REACT? THE MOTOR. NOBODY CAN ANSWER IT.

NEXT. THE LITTLE TRICK. YOU SHUT THE THROTTLE SLIDE ALMOST ALL THE WAY OFF AND THE MIX SCREW SEEMS TO MAKE IT RICHEN AND LEAN. WELL, IF Y8OU READ THE BOOK TOO, CARB MANUAL, IT SAYS RACING BIEKS TURN THEIR SLIDE OFF. TURN THE IDLE STOP SCREW OUT UNTIL THE SLIDE CLOSES SO WHEN THEY WRECK, THE BIKE STOPS AND DOESNT KEEP RUNNING AND CATCH ON FIRE.
AND IT SAYS DONT TURN THE MIX SCREW] CAUSE IT WILL LEAN IT OUT MAYBE AND MAKE A LEAN CONDITION AND SEIZE IT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS.

SO MY LITTLE TRICK VIDEO SEEMS TO MAKE THE PILOT CIRCUIT WORK, BUT WOULD TEAR THE MOTOR UP IF IT TUNED ... I DONT KNOW SOMETHING. IF YOU MESSED WITH THAT. BUT IT DOESNT AFFECT IT.

so can anyone help? now. anyone know anything about dellorto's? sure would help. thaks.