[CAM2]

Well this question has been asked dozens and dozens of times and seeings Ive been taking apart alot of them lately to make race engines out of them I decided to take the time to start a thread showing how to get rid of them............

1.This pic shows the pullstarter that has to be removed.....

2.This pic shows pullstarter being removed

3.This pic shows the starter pawl that needs to be removed

4.This pic shows the starter housing bolts being removed

5.This pic shows the spark plug that has to be removed

6.This pic shows the plug being removed

7.This pic shows a 6" long scrap of cloth needed as a piston stop tool..You could also use soft rope

8.This pic shows the cloth being forced into cylinder to be used as a piston stop tool to ease removal

9.This shows the starter pawl being removed

10.This pic shows the starter pawl bolt holding the armature in

11.This pic shows the starter pawl removed

12.These pics shows the bolt that is being used to remove the starter armature...A 2" M8 1.0 grade 8 bolt will work good....

13.This pic shows the screw being screwed into the starter armature

14.These pics shows the screw pressing the armature off

15.This pic shows the starter housing with armature removed from shaft

16.This pic shows the starter housing magnets that need to be removed from the housing

17.These pics shows the magnets removed and the guts removed from the starter housing to be reused

18.This pic shows the armature trimmed down to save weight

19.This pic shows the gutted starter housing being reinstalled onto the engine with armature

20.This pic shows the armature reinstalled with attaching bolt and pawl installed and ready to reattach the pullstarter

Enjoy a faster spooling engine with a few extra revs on the topend and a bit of ease in the starting dept............Thanks for looking............Peace

 

[StrayDawg63]

Very good Cam2 Thanks..... Lots of pics here and with all these steps that it seems like guys dont let it scare you away it really is very easy to do.

You have a few more steps than I do when I do it. Mostly I never use a piston stop cause I dont take the starter pawl off of the starter pawl bolt I do it has one piece
Hey Cam2 you just dont knock the center spline out of the starter windings and loose all that weight? Than just use the center spline as your spacer for the pull start?

 

[CAM2]

Thanks StrayDawg.....Yes I remove the centers and lighten the starter armature 1 more step on the racing engines but its harder to knock the center out than it is to cut the armature on a chopsaw but doing so causes alot of smoke,acrid smells and slight but annoying itch..Plus I also get rid of the starter body altogether and chop down the armature mount to 1" to bolt the starter pawl direct to the crank/engine block like the pic below which would be a bit harder to follow for some others...

Taking off just the armature fields from the armature lightens the armature up pretty good and can be removed with a wire clipper and a prybar pretty easily.Theres the option of throwing the armature into a firepit or cooking it with a torch too but as I stated it will smell horrible plus may cause breathing problems.....

Without the extra pull of the really strong magnets and the friction of the brushes you can still feel the difference in engine pull,revs and ease of startup not to mention it helps get the job done a bit faster plus the armature weight helps counterbalance out the crank weight distribution on both ends.The opposite end is weighted with the flywheel and clutch so on a stock engine it will help instead of hinder by easing the unbalanced strain on the crank bearings/crank seals............

Like StrayDawg states;-for everyone reading this....The steps outlined in this thread looks harder and longer than it seems until you do it.The whole thing took me 20 minutes with taking pics and can be done in the same time with the engine still installed on the bike/scooter............

Good Luck with your removals and I hope they turn out how you'd like them and with good results..........Peace

 

[StrayDawg63]

I've never had any problems knocking the center spline out of the windings. I just put it in a vise with the motor side up give it a shot of WD-40 on both sides than wait maybe 10 minutes or about as long as it takes to remove the magnets and the brushes. Put a socket or piece of pipe about the same size and knock it out with a hammer. Sometimes may need to give a second shot of WD-40 and wait a few but most times not needed.

 

[EPR]

Both of you Guys, that was Very Good, I don't have an electric start Zenoah Scooter engine, but I am still learning about these engines. Even on my Cag engines I have wanted to make the clutch & flywheel the same weight for the same reasons you stated.
I put my 286gram flywheel that was on Sam's 3rd Stage eng, on my modded 47cc ( 40cc ) Cag engine, it had a lite fly wheel before.
I took a stock cag flywheel and am drilling & tapping & adding 5 bolts each on 2 sides 90 degrees from the magnets, to add weight and to make a more balanced wheel. The stock I have is 345 grams going to try for 390, and see if that helps pull starting Sams engine. And see how the engine runs at top speed.

 

[CAM2]

I've never had any problems knocking the center spline out of the windings. I just put it in a vise with the motor side up give it a shot of WD-40 on both sides than wait maybe 10 minutes or about as long as it takes to remove the magnets and the brushes. Put a socket or piece of pipe about the same size and knock it out with a hammer. Sometimes may need to give a second shot of WD-40 and wait a few but most times not needed.

I'll give it a try to see what happens on the others I have laying around....the last time I hit one with the hammer it did some real good damage to the piece with just a single shot.....I just used a pretty big hammer though;-lol......Thanks StrayDawg for the tip.....

EPR the extra weighting of the flywheel should work aslong as it comes out right....The sad part about some of these small chinese engines is they rely on an unbalanced flywheel a bit more heavier towards the magnets to throw the magnets around with ease to get the momentum...The counterbalance of the crank is supposed to help balance the assembly but isnt as effective as the chinese thought and that leads to high vibrations...Balancing the flywheel evenly may still lead to starting problems for you but Ill keep my fingers crossed for you because Ive seen weirder things happen that theoretically shouldnt happen........

Have you considered just adding the stock flywheel untouched to see how it fires up and going from there?

Lots of luck to you EPR...Youve put in your time and now its time for your due in fun ........

Part of understanding those engines better is by riding them too to get feedback for proper changes....Peace

 

[StrayDawg63]

I'll give it a try to see what happens on the others I have laying around....the last time I hit one with the hammer it did some real good damage to the piece with just a single shot.....I just used a pretty big hammer though;-lol......Thanks StrayDawg for the tip.....

Sounds like you tryed knocking it out from the pullstart side maybe? Or tryed to knock it the puck out!!!!!

Cam2 I hope you dont mind me adding to your thread??

Another difference in the way I go about it is I leave the starter housing on the motor and use a 8mm bolt thats 3 1/2" long with 3" of threads on it to run in through the center of the winding. This really helps to pull the starter windings away from those strong magnets in the housing. Yes they are some strong suckers!!!!
But as you know Cam2 some of the starters the brushing plate is on the pull start side and some on the motor side of the housing. So of course that plate and brushes will need to be removed first when it's on the pull start side. Drilling the little rivets out works great for this.

 

[EPR]

Cam2, When I sent the eng to Sam, it left w/ a MBPN new lite flywheel,
for some reason it broke two rocket keys in one hour. I got it running a few times when I first build it, but it had alot of problems for an engine built w/ brand new parts. It would get hot in one min. and die, and not restart. Sam, found the new coil was crap, the flyw wheel was lose and moving around, and the new clylinder was warped, the new clutch was to big, hows that for good luck,lol,lol.
Sam found all the problems I couldn't find in a year of taking it apart and back together. I was so SICK of that engine. $55 in parts and the kit, and it is Reborn. So, It came back w/ a 345 grams 18 fin flyw. It was stiff starting compared to stock. So, Mr. Can't Stop Modding Everything, said lets lighten the flwheel, down to 286 grams. I put it back on, it was so hard to pull, I told my son, Take it out of Park, take the hand brake off.
I took the startcover off & turned the eng over by the flywheel it was not that hard, so I am scratching my head, going what the H*** is going on, is this the Twilite Zone.
I would not have known if I did not read your post about the lite flywheel and what it does to pull starting your bike.

 

[bikerpbl]

ok so to have it be pull start only i need to reinstal it with out the magnets?

 

[CAM2]

Removing the magnets lessens the pulling required to start the engine....The magnets are really strong and removing them has benefits in gaining rpms and removing the wiring gauges,switches and battery will lighten it up aswell..........

You can bust them out with a screwdriver and a hammer and save yourself hassles and time...

EPR thats good to know others are benefitting from what I know...

StrayDawg your input is always welcomed aswell as anyone willing to contribute....

 

[EPR]

Cam2, Back on the Lucky 7 w/ Sam's stocker kit & a 14/14 Dell Rep carb.
Its going to rain, late this afternoon, want to Start it.
Biker, the blinkers and all that stuff is not road legal. It would be nice to have a tail light & brake light even more. If you get a small 12v 4 amp hr battery like in my ZX1 110cc 4 stroke, its about 3" x 4" and at TNCscooters you can get a $3 plug and a $12, 12v charger, put the plug into your body work or frame. Charge it 2 times a week all night, My X18 was on my car charger yesterday, and the ZX1 is on it Now. Put it on 2 amps for 8 to 10 hours.
Even blinkers amd a brake light, w/ no alternator, running off the battery, Keep It Charged.

 

[bikerpbl]

so i cant just put the pull start right onto the engine? and if not whats the best way to remove the screws holding the magnets on?

 

[EPR]

I don't know if you can but Cam2 will. My scooter only has a pull start, no electrics. I could add one w/ a battery be it cost alot of money for all the stuff I need. If you can pull the shaft and take the outer starter casing off, you may need a new pull starter an cog assembly.

 

[CAM2]

so i cant just put the pull start right onto the engine? and if not whats the best way to remove the screws holding the magnets on?

You can but youre gonna have to cut a 1" nub out of the armature mount...If you just break out the magnets with a hammer and large screwdriver you can just stick the armature back in without the extra pull of the magnets or friction on brushes plate you will gain performance...

If you do StrayDawgs method of beating the center out of the armature you can add the center again and bolt the pullstarter pawl mount then add the pullstarter to the aluminum starter body to keep the pullstarter in stock location so it stays clocked in good pulling position.............The method of using WD-40 and a hammer with sockets works pretty good..It just takes the right technique to get it out easily............

 

[bikerpbl]

ok i got the magnets out but i tries to unscrew the screws and there stuck and in the way of the middle piece that going inside how can i take the screws out.

 

[CAM2]

You can just leave the screws..Theyre not gonna hit anything...

Have you removed the starter body off the engine and bust off the plate that houses the brushes?

Those magnets are pretty strong...huh?

 

[bikerpbl]

yea there really strong, and yea i took pretty much everything off the housing and put it all back together and its alot easyer to pull, thanks for the help. great thread!

 

[StrayDawg63]

Put the windings in a vise with the motor side up and just knock the center spline out of it to use as a spacer.

Just using the pull starter without the housing will turn your pullstart in to a knockle buster!!!!

 

[Bluethunder3320]

wait.. is it possible to just mount the pull start right up against the engine?

 

[bikerpbl]

wait.. is it possible to just mount the pull start right up against the engine?

i allready asked that lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerpbl
so i cant just put the pull start right onto the engine? and if not whats the best way to remove the screws holding the magnets on?

You can but youre gonna have to cut a 1" nub out of the armature mount...If you just break out the magnets with a hammer and large screwdriver you can just stick the armature back in without the extra pull of the magnets or friction on brushes plate you will gain performance...

If you do StrayDawgs method of beating the center out of the armature you can add the center again and bolt the pullstarter pawl mount then add the pullstarter to the aluminum starter body to keep the pullstarter in stock location so it stays clocked in good pulling position.............The method of using WD-40 and a hammer with sockets works pretty good..It just takes the right technique to get it out easily............

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/w...ines/044-1.jpg