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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just put in a new nickasil piston ring, and new gaskets. Then cleaned all the parts. Now that i have it back together it took forever to get it started. When I get it started it will start if i full throttle it , and it will not idle. We tried moving up 3 sizes to a 76 jet, but it won't idle. Turn the idle screw in all the way, it just won't idle. I put in a new spark plug. we checked the fuel. I'm at a loss. could it be a weak spark? or could the coil be bad? any suggestions?
 

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Make sure that when you put the ring in you had the gap in the ring lined up with the pin in the piston ring groove. If you missed, and it felt a little hard to get the cylinder back on, its very possible you broke the ring and you are'nt getting enough compression.

If thats not the case, make sure that the carb is seated all the way on the intake manifold to where it is compressing the small o-ring type gasket in the carb, you may be getting an air leak. Also since you were able to get the motor started under full throttle, how long did you run it like that? If you did for any length of time, you may have scratched the cylinder if the last fix-it was the problem. You may want to pull the cylinder if and give a quick look.
 

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ya, lastnight, i had installed a new exhaust and a new Stack with the Choke. After everything was complete, it took forever to start, FOREVER, then once started it wasnt idling, but after time with messing with the carberator, i got it to start and idle a lil better, buttttt if its at a low idle and i hit the gas it will boggle down and either die or take a second to respond!! Any Suggestions?
 

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MacDaddy, also check that you have the proper squish (.35mm to .45mm) and that your flywheel woodruff key is installed properly and in good condition and check the gap on your coil, somewhere between .3mm and .4mm would be appropriate.
 

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DemonSpit said:
Make sure that when you put the ring in you had the gap in the ring lined up with the pin in the piston ring groove. If you missed, and it felt a little hard to get the cylinder back on, its very possible you broke the ring and you are'nt getting enough compression.

If thats not the case, make sure that the carb is seated all the way on the intake manifold to where it is compressing the small o-ring type gasket in the carb, you may be getting an air leak. Also since you were able to get the motor started under full throttle, how long did you run it like that? If you did for any length of time, you may have scratched the cylinder if the last fix-it was the problem. You may want to pull the cylinder if and give a quick look.
Hey Ted,

Aren't those rings illegal in Proddy Class? :confused:
 

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Macdaddy, did you take the piston off the rod? If you did, did you put the piston back on in the right direction. If you put it on backwards, it wont run right. There is an arrow on top of the piston that should point to the exhaust ports of the cylinder. If your bike was running right b4 then you should not change jetting. You are only complicating things for yourself. Did you use the same thickness of base gaskets when you reassembled the motor? What did you torque the head bolts down to? These are important things to know and robocop made some good suggestions aswell.
 

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whats legal

cybrstarr said:
Hey Ted,

Aren't those rings illegal in Proddy Class? :confused:
Well it was my understanding that they were considered illegal in production classes, but it would seem that many new motors (proddy) are being shipped from the factory with the chrome rings already in place. This in itself would make them legal since they are coming from the factory that way.

In my opinion what is happening is that in Europe, and even here now, a class will be offered, for instance production class, and the rules will be layed out, for example

Proddy- 3 port cylinder, 40cc max, 14mm carb, stock reedbox, intake, and the "production pipe".

Then (and the most guilty as I can tell) Blata will come out with a 5 port cylinder and say, hey this conforms to the Proddy class. And for some reason everyone that has the power to say, hey, no, it is clearly defined that a proddy bike can only have a 3 port cylinder, rolls over and says, OK we have no spine, go ahead and race. They did this in the 4.2 class where their suppossed 4.2 comes also with a 5 port cylinder. And everyone is again rolling over. I heard that at the national level in Europe, Blata was showing up with programmable ignition, and all kinds of crazy stuff never before allowed, and everyone rolled over. I have also heard rumors (from reliable sources) that there are "factory race packages" available here if you know the right people, these are parts that are not in the catalog, and have everything from "legal" high compression pistons, radically stuffed cases, specially ported cylinders and cases, ect.

So IMO what will happen is that Polini, BiZeta, ect are getting sick of no one in the governing race bodies having a spine and standing up to Blata, and just saying fine, we will do the same, start offering chromed higher strength rings, soon it will be stuffed cranks (again), 5 port cylinders in proddy motors, ect. This really sucks because what was suppose to be a Production class (and somewhat affordable as compared to open 40 or 50) will soon be just as expensive.

What this boils down to is that the governing bodies, whether its USMGP, PBRN, and all the local clubs need to say, hey, these are the rules, if a bike does not fall into them, tough sh!t, they don't get to race. If a company can't build a competitive bike for each class, well to bad, build one that can, then you can race.

This is no different than something like Moto GP (although not quite the same money :D ), they say that the bikes are limited to either 500cc 2stroke, or 990cc 4 stroke. So now that Blata is sponsoring a race team, what do you think would happen if they came out with the 1200cc 4stroke or 900cc 2stroke, that Moto GP would roll over and say, well OK, you can run that, hell no, they would laugh them off the track, and everyone would think they were smokin crack when they built the bike.

Sorry to get off on that rant, but the people that for what ever reason were chosen to make the rules, need to show some backbone, fair is fair, if chrome rings were originally illegal for use, then they should stay that way, if a Proddy bike is suppose to only have a 3 port cylinder, then 5's are out, end of story. marcelo
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Frank Toth said:
Macdaddy, did you take the piston off the rod? If you did, did you put the piston back on in the right direction. If you put it on backwards, it wont run right. There is an arrow on top of the piston that should point to the exhaust ports of the cylinder. If your bike was running right b4 then you should not change jetting. You are only complicating things for yourself. Did you use the same thickness of base gaskets when you reassembled the motor? What did you torque the head bolts down to? These are important things to know and robocop made some good suggestions aswell.
I made sure i put the piston back on the right way,, then double checked. I also used along with the new gaskets around the reeds and carb parts a liquid gasket to make sure i wasn't leaking air any where. I have now since been able to get it to idle,, but i think it will even run better when i get it broken in.
 

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TeamMacDaddy said:
I made sure i put the piston back on the right way,, then double checked. I also used along with the new gaskets around the reeds and carb parts a liquid gasket to make sure i wasn't leaking air any where. I have now since been able to get it to idle,, but i think it will even run better when i get it broken in.
How did you break in the motor? The way that I usually break in the motor is by 5-10 minute heat cycles. I haven't gotten a problem doing it this way yet, and the Bizeta motor that is in one of my DM's have a Chrome ring on it. You might wanna also check the reeds. Are they broken? Maybe placed the wrong way also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey all!!! thanks for the great tips. I knew there was a reason why i love this forum!! BTW the bike i finally got the bike to idle and run well by setting the coil gap to the fly wheel and then giving it time to break in a little. I have a new problem that popped up on mondays practice. I also on this rebuild added new clutch pads (carbonium Bi-Zeta race pads) doesn't matter what settings i went with on the springs, the clutch would not completely engage. slip slip slip all the way around the track.
 

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TeamMacDaddy said:
new clutch pads (carbonium Bi-Zeta race pads) doesn't matter what settings i went with on the springs, the clutch would not completely engage. slip slip slip all the way around the track.
As for Carbonium pads,off and on (specially for short track configuration)the surface turns into glass(specially during break in period) and you may need to check and do some filing to remove the glass surface for optimal performance....Ma two cents worth...good luck!
 
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