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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone, in the near future i plan on building track ready cag (MTA-2) to race against my mates on. I'm hoping on doing some frame modification or possibly designing and building my own. So my first question is on the geometry of the frame, what will give the bike better handling i suppose? I ride mtbs and i know stuff like the head angle, swing arm length and wheelbase ect... all effect the handling, but what is the case with pocket bikes? also i was thinking of putting dual brakes up front if its possible with the stock rim by drilling holes in it or by buying a rim for that, but would dual cable be better than a single hydraulic up front? i've done a fair bit of research and i'm fine with building a fast engine, well fast for a pocket bike but i need help with the other stuff. Any help and advice would be much appreciated, and if you have any other recommendations of things to do, that'd be great. Cheers
 

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First you need to take the engine completely apart, and make a plan or blueprint of the mods your going to make. Cam2 can help you there. Am I going to run a stock crank or FC racing crank, 10mm or 12mm pin & piston.
The guys at the track speed thousands of dollars on just the engine and good rims, tires, chains and gears, etc. The stock stuff is for riding around the local store parking lot, not on a track, the engines comes with a Lawnmower 1 steady rpm engine,lol. A lot of work, 80% work and 20% riding or worse,lol. Click on CAM2 name on a post and click the right button to see all his posts, tons of photos and instructions on what to do. Have Fun.
 

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Hello PocketBikePlanet, I was wondering where I can get a decent X18 pocket bike. I want it the color white and everything, can someone give me a good website I can order from? The ones I look at have really really really bad reviews on them. Like one website gave this family a 7 year old used pocket bike and said it would be new. I'M SERIOUS please give me a good website or dealer. The name is called the X18-Nitro it is 110 cc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
First you need to take the engine completely apart, and make a plan or blueprint of the mods your going to make. Cam2 can help you there. Am I going to run a stock crank or FC racing crank, 10mm or 12mm pin & piston.
The guys at the track speed thousands of dollars on just the engine and good rims, tires, chains and gears, etc. The stock stuff is for riding around the local store parking lot, not on a track, the engines comes with a Lawnmower 1 steady rpm engine,lol. A lot of work, 80% work and 20% riding or worse,lol. Click on CAM2 name on a post and click the right button to see all his posts, tons of photos and instructions on what to do. Have Fun.
Ok thanks EPR, i'll have a look at some of cam's work. I already have a big bore with a FC crank, pretty sure its a 12mm. Yea my bike breaks down heaps, so when I start this project i'm definitely going to try and get things as reliable as possible, that'l save a lot of time in the future ha!
 

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Hello PocketBikePlanet, I was wondering where I can get a decent X18 pocket bike. I want it the color white and everything, can someone give me a good website I can order from? The ones I look at have really really really bad reviews on them. Like one website gave this family a 7 year old used pocket bike and said it would be new. I'M SERIOUS please give me a good website or dealer. The name is called the X18-Nitro it is 110 cc.
Youre a few years too late bud ..You might get lucky and find one but know that the newer bikes arent as good as the older bikes plus finding a mint fully complete and perfectly functioning older model will be damm near impossible........If you happen to find one it definately wont be white unless you custom paint it yourself.........Good Luck with your search and Welcome to the forum........
 

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Hi everyone, in the near future i plan on building track ready cag (MTA-2) to race against my mates on. I'm hoping on doing some frame modification or possibly designing and building my own. So my first question is on the geometry of the frame, what will give the bike better handling i suppose? I ride mtbs and i know stuff like the head angle, swing arm length and wheelbase ect... all effect the handling, but what is the case with pocket bikes? also i was thinking of putting dual brakes up front if its possible with the stock rim by drilling holes in it or by buying a rim for that, but would dual cable be better than a single hydraulic up front? i've done a fair bit of research and i'm fine with building a fast engine, well fast for a pocket bike but i need help with the other stuff. Any help and advice would be much appreciated, and if you have any other recommendations of things to do, that'd be great. Cheers
All I know is that euro bikes are designed and built for racing...If anything Id mimic the length and rake from one into a cag racer build....Building a top notch frame requires good quality steel,, a tig welder and the ability to have the frame stress relieved after its built..........If not it will flex,,bend,,twist and crack pretty easily.............It also takes a finely constructed frame jig to get everything 100% concentric

Go with the hydro front brake setup........cables stretch too much in a race environment...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
All I know is that euro bikes are designed and built for racing...If anything Id mimic the length and rake from one into a cag racer build....Building a top notch frame requires good quality steel,, a tig welder and the ability to have the frame stress relieved after its built..........If not it will flex,,bend,,twist and crack pretty easily.............It also takes a finely constructed frame jig to get everything 100% concentric

Go with the hydro front brake setup........cables stretch too much in a race environment...
Ok i'll look around at some euro bikes and see which one i like best. Quick question, would a mig welder be OK? and would taking the frame to a metal work shop be the best way to go about stress relieving the frame? Thanks for the advice
 

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Ok i'll look around at some euro bikes and see which one i like best. Quick question, would a mig welder be OK? and would taking the frame to a metal work shop be the best way to go about stress relieving the frame? Thanks for the advice
If your gonna use quality steel like chromolly youre gonna need a tig welder unless you heat treat the steel after getting it stress releived...Mig welders concentrate too much heat on the tubing changing the strength composition into brittle and easy to fracture...,,,Chromolly is a strong liteweight steel until you alter it not to be and excessive heat is what it takes to alter it to be dangerously brittle....Tig welders are a way better way to weld chromolly safely and the right way......

If you built two frames one out of cold rolled steel and the other out of chromolly the weight difference would be extremely different in weights...The cold rolled steel is almost double the weight as its same sized chromolly counterpart..........

In racing the lighter the frame the better the track reaction....But it has to be strong too..........

When you get done fabbing,,jigging and welding up a liteweight chromolly frame you could of bought a GRC/DM/ZPF or Stamas roller,,,made an engine plate to slap a cag engine directly into it in less time for less money with lesser difficulty........... Even the rep frames arent half bad and better quality than a cag...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If your gonna use quality steel like chromolly youre gonna need a tig welder...Mig welders concentrate too much heat on the tubing changing the strength composition into brittle and easy to fracture...,,,Chromolly is a strong liteweight steel until you alter it not to be....Tig welders are a way better way to weld chromolly safely and the right way......

If you built two frames one out of cold rolled steel and the other out of chromolly the weight difference would be extremely different in weights...The cold rolled steel is almost double the weight as its same sized chromolly counterpart..........

In racing the lighter the frame the better the track reaction....But it has to be strong too..........

When you get done fabbing,,jigging and welding up a liteweight chromolly frame you could of bought a GRC/DM/ZPF or Stamas roller,,,made an engine plate to slap a cag engine directly into it in less time for less money with lesser difficulty........... Even the rep frames arent half bad and better quality than a cag...........
Ok, i've been looking around, i found a Polini GP3 replica, i think... for around around 200, i don't really know all to much about the bike, whats your opinion on the it and how much do you think it would cost in comparison to build a frame from scratch? cheers
 

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This is my 50cc C1 China bike, It's a copy of a Blata Orgami, Euro bike, just got it back together. The frame is a little heavy for a Cag Engine but a C2 alum frame might work. MPR has new Cag A2 and the RS frame with rear shock for $70 and $84 shipped.
 

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Ok, i've been looking around, i found a Polini GP3 replica, i think... for around around 200, i don't really know all to much about the bike, whats your opinion on the it and how much do you think it would cost in comparison to build a frame from scratch? cheers

Depending on where you live and how you need to obtain the materials,,,make the jig,,heatreating,,stress releiving etc your looking at close to $400.00.....Maybe more..........Here in NY taxes are a tad under 9%.....So if we were to build two of the same frames using exactly identical parts,,technics etc but bought in our seperate demographic areas........ Ill most likely pay more than you unless I use my contacts or you live in Peurto rico,NY,,Hawaii or Cali.........:eek:

The reason why places can sell frames cheaper is because theyre manufacturing them in huge lots with workers each having specialized areas involving mass production of the composition of the construction materials......

When you can manufacture 100 frames in a day,,,heatreat them and send them out for tumbling and painting in another day costs go down....Doing it as a one time DIY venture always costs twice even thrice of a ready manufactured item thats readily sold..........

EPR will tell ya this from experience...It costs more to build engines from scratch than buy a fully functioning item and modifying it..........Thats where you have to put in the time and the research...I can only point you in the right direction,,I cant compose the whole song for ya though......All my chinese projects are designed to deliver the biggest bang for the slightest buck.............
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Depending on where you live and how you need to obtain the materials,,,make the jig,,heatreating,,stress releiving etc your looking at close to $400.00.....Maybe more..........Here in NY taxes are a tad under 9%.....So if we were to build two of the same frames using exactly identical parts,,technics etc but bought in our seperate demographic areas........ Ill most likely pay more than you unless I use my contacts or you live in peurto rico,,,hawaii or Cali.........:eek:

The reason why places can sell frames cheaper is because theyre manufacturing them in huge lots with workers each having specialized areas involving mass production of the composition of the construction materials......

When you can manufacture 100 frames in a day,,,heatreat them and send them out for tumbling and painting in another day costs go down....Doing it as a one time DIY venture always costs twice even thrice of a ready manufactured item thats readily sold..........

EPR will tell ya this from experience...It costs more to build engines from scratch than buy a fully functioning item and modifying it..........Thats where you have to put in the time and the research...I can only point you in the right direction,,I cant compose the whole song for ya though......
Ok thanks, i live in Sydney, Australia so i'm not sure what the tax rate is here. I've been looking at your thread on the four cags and its really good btw, i really liked the ducati frame that you did, how would doing something similar compare to building a frame from scratch? thanks for all the help so far
 

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Ok thanks, i live in Sydney, Australia so i'm not sure what the tax rate is here. I've been looking at your thread on the four cags and its really good btw, i really liked the ducati frame that you did, how would doing something similar compare to building a frame from scratch? thanks for all the help so far
Holy craps batman.......:eek:...That could make it costly in itself too and definately gonna be on a higher rate than me.............Do you have any steel mills that sell chromolly tubing locally to you there?....Then theres tubing notchers,,tubing benders and sinkdeck to build the jig and manufacture the frame............How about places that do heat-treating and stress relieving??
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I've found some websites that seem to sell chromoly that are located around me. Otherwise i know of a few metal shops that i could try... I'm quite new to metal work, so to be honest i'm not sure about the other things that you've mentioned and where i can find them. I'll definitely look into it, but yea around what would be the price range to modify the frame i supose like you did with the ducati cag?
 

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I've found some websites that seem to sell chromoly that are located around me. Otherwise i know of a few metal shops that i could try... I'm quite new to metal work, so to be honest i'm not sure about the other things that you've mentioned and where i can find them. I'll definitely look into it, but yea around what would be the price range to modify the frame i supose like you did with the ducati cag?
The Ducati cag is a sweet looking frame thats ultra strong but unfortnately its also a lil on the heavy side now........Its been built to withstand heavy riders going high speeds faster than 60mph with an engine higher than 60 cc's while looking good when done........

If you were to use lightweight alloy tubing it would probably run ya a couple hundred..........My mod only costed me $20 bux to do,,,,,,The steel was a donation from a friend that owns a steel mill and the rear BMX swingarms came from a free BMX bike I found in the trash,,,,,,,,I jigged the frame and chemically stress relieved and heattreated it with ammonia and a torch...........
 

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I went to a welding place here in California and they wanted $120 min. an hour for welding anything. I'm going, not going to spend that kind of money on a $300 bike.
Shipping to Downunder, good luck with that,lol. Do they sell 150cc scooters there. Find a dealer that imports from China, my BMS 150cc scooter is made in China, $1,400 US dollars t my door, when I took it to the CA. DMV, I was sweating builts when they inspected it,lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I supose your just lucky cam with all the stuff u've got. Just say if i reinforced the stock frame (not as much as the ducati cag), would it still need to be heat treated and stress relieved?

Yea i wouldn't spend that much on welding my bike, which i got for basically nothing. But what do you mean EPR by finding an importer for 150cc scooters? is it so that i can try and import a bike using them? thanks
 

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I supose your just lucky cam with all the stuff u've got. Just say if i reinforced the stock frame (not as much as the ducati cag), would it still need to be heat treated and stress relieved?

Yea i wouldn't spend that much on welding my bike, which i got for basically nothing. But what do you mean EPR by finding an importer for 150cc scooters? is it so that i can try and import a bike using them? thanks
Not lucky...I have a friend that owns a steel mill..damages occur to stock and some steel rusts up making it not very sellable....I get it for free out of their trashbin but I bring coffee and donuts with me.......

Every now and again I accumulate tons of extra auto parts,,rears,,transmissions,,engines and I take those items to the scrapyard..seeings I have a keen eye I quickly spot things of interest in the scrap pile and pull them to the side....I dump my load and then place the pieces I want in the truck////Im not cheating the scrapyard and they dont mind because its like Im paying for the scrap by getting less money for what I brought in because my truck shows heavier...........

Ive been building stuff for years,,,been in manufacturing for many-many years,,done business up n down longisland so I know products and where to obtain them cheaper.........

Its not luck...Its experience..............Luck is picking the pile and finding 8 California gold tokens from 1853-1857 inside a metal book safe worth over 2g's.........Which I did BTW....
 

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Moving the rear wheel back also helps keep the front end on or near the ground and it's more stable at high speed.
 
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