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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys!
Now most of us know about the tripple stage reed mod,
And everybody knows about the single polini reed mod..
But has anyone tried combining those 2 mods to make one freaky reed??
this guys has on his hobbit , and says its great, wonder if we could get some good results with a pb id use a black widow style triple stage reed and slap it on top of a polini yellow base reed .And for a stiffer setup yellow as the split reed and polini blue as base
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If I remember correctly, quite a few on here tried many if not all versions with varying results. Most results were poor performance. The best is the original tin reed with a modded stopper and modded plate. But let us know if you try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If I remember correctly, quite a few on here tried many if not all versions with varying results. Most results were poor performance. The best is the original tin reed with a modded stopper and modded plate. But let us know if you try.
That weird people seemed to like the triple stage mod and the single reed mod, but it is only effective on a highly modded engine and a proper carb adjustment
 

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If I remember correctly, quite a few on here tried many if not all versions with varying results. Most results were poor performance. The best is the original tin reed with a modded stopper and modded plate. But let us know if you try.
Correct multi stage reeds are onley really effective on larger CC engines the intake duration on the Daytona engine is so short the second stage never actually functions it just kind flutters.

On a stock engine fiberglass or carbon fiber reeds are better after heavy modification reinstall the stock reeds

Removing the center bar and going with one large reed pedal is also bad it forces the engine to charge against the sides of the crank case you honestly want the engine to charge in the center of the Reed cage putting the air fuel mixture in a good place to squeeze between the crank and up into the transfer ports.
 

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Exactly. I personally never tried any because of the bad feedback from others. Did a fiberglass on a stock engine, felt an improvement. But not on a modified engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Correct multi stage reeds are onley really effective on larger CC engines the intake duration on the Daytona engine is so short the second stage never actually functions it just kind flutters.

On a stock engine fiberglass or carbon fiber reeds are better after heavy modification reinstall the stock reeds

Removing the center bar and going with one large reed pedal is also bad it forces the engine to charge against the sides of the crank case you honestly want the engine to charge in the center of the Reed cage putting the air fuel mixture in a good place to squeeze between the crank and up into the transfer ports.
So basically Your saying the tin reeds are stiffer than all of the above? I want to use the ada replica billet reed cage, i mean i could whip up some split reeds with a polini blue sheet , they would be stiffer than the tin reeds and thus flutter less? Best of both worlds? Anyway i already have most of the stuff for all the testing , i guess ill just try and see
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Okay im not trying to be an ass or anything but nobody has the same opinion on anything lol and it’s stating to get to me, it’s impossible to learn when everyone has a different opinion . Be it reeds , be it reeds or carburetor size? Its driving me crazy and its the main reason why its now been 5 months and i have not build my engine and im still not even sure i got the right stuff , but i realize now that it’s impossible to “get the right stuff” when NOBODY thinks the same,
first of all the polini reed mod:
They say to use green reeds. I was told to use blue,
Meanwhile a polini 4.2 comes with blue reeds . So logic would say hey . A cag would never pull as hard as a polini so putting stiffer reeds on a cag than on a polini would be retarded! Maybe yellow would be best! But nobody has ever talked about trying yellow reeds,
then carburetors . Oh god: 19mm is apparently too big for any cag. But there’s several posts of cags with a phgb 19 and nobody bats an eye once its on there . Pumper carb vs slide carb? Good luck getting a consistant answer for that!
ive had “ stay with stock carb” to “ 19 mm will get the best out of your build” so whos right? And whos full of ****? Anywone saying a 19mm carb is too big for a cag, have you tried it? And why are there race teams that use them on their builds , they obviously know something? They wouldnt showcase theyre racing cag engine with a 19mm phbg carb if it didnt work.
i used to think the more air and fuel you cram in there the better. Along with good port timing and a tuned pipe. But mannn seems way more complicated than that
2 stokes are supposed to be “simplistic” but ive never in my entire life encountered something so complicated where nobody says the same thing, about anything . Obviously theres not only 1 magic formula to building a bike because then everyone would just have the exact same setup . But simple principles like reed stiffness and max carb bore should be constant with the number/extent of mods. Because so far : boost bottles = crap . Fcc = crap . Rocket key = crap. Any other reeds than tin reeds = crap . Head kits = crap everything is basically crap except the stock build lol why even modify them? They seem perfect out of the box with everything im seeing lol

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What's your poison? Mine is 40:1
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I understand the dilemma. First, you are in Canada and a lot of us are in US or Europe. Parts availability is or could be very different. Now, what are you looking to do with a CAG motor? Race, parking lot fun??
Every part can suck, every part can be good when used with other HP parts.
A stock carb can work great stock or modified on a modified motor. Pumpers are EASY to tune quickly, but not for everyone, real dellorto carbs are great, tune roughly the same as a stocker, but EXPENSIVE. The 2 piece heads are great, but are not a direct bolt on, I mean physically they are but it has been proven over and over again on old threads on here that more needs to be done to benefit from them, getting higher compression.
Reeds, try them all, I have used tin, carbon fiber, and fiberglass, they flutter at high speeds with a decently modified engine where tin is great. I read about others trying the polini reeds in different configurations. I honestly dont remember the yellow one being tried. Sounds like a go.
Everyone has their opinion. Everyone wants to help and share their experiences. You need to decide which is best and try it.
I didnt listen, used a Chinese 'race' carb, it ran sure, low end and mid was decent, honestly not better than stock. Terrible top end with no tuning. But I tried it. I learn the hard way.
A proven combo on almost any 40mm or 44mm cag engine....
Minimum mods....
bump up compression,
rocket key, hp wire mod,
wt603t pumper carb. ,Reedplate mod,
Hp sparkplug and custom hp exhaust
plus a lil porting of the transfer ports and exhaust port.
It's alot easier to do than you think and will net roughly double horsepower.
Of course it doesn't have to end there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I understand the dilemma. First, you are in Canada and a lot of us are in US or Europe. Parts availability is or could be very different. Now, what are you looking to do with a CAG motor? Race, parking lot fun??
Every part can suck, every part can be good when used with other HP parts.
A stock carb can work great stock or modified on a modified motor. Pumpers are EASY to tune quickly, but not for everyone, real dellorto carbs are great, tune roughly the same as a stocker, but EXPENSIVE. The 2 piece heads are great, but are not a direct bolt on, I mean physically they are but it has been proven over and over again on old threads on here that more needs to be done to benefit from them, getting higher compression.
Reeds, try them all, I have used tin, carbon fiber, and fiberglass, they flutter at high speeds with a decently modified engine where tin is great. I read about others trying the polini reeds in different configurations. I honestly dont remember the yellow one being tried. Sounds like a go.
Everyone has their opinion. Everyone wants to help and share their experiences. You need to decide which is best and try it.
I didnt listen, used a Chinese 'race' carb, it ran sure, low end and mid was decent, honestly not better than stock. Terrible top end with no tuning. But I tried it. I learn the hard way.
A proven combo on almost any 40mm or 44mm cag engine....
Minimum mods....
bump up compression,
rocket key, hp wire mod,
wt603t pumper carb. ,Reedplate mod,
Hp sparkplug and custom hp exhaust
plus a lil porting of the transfer ports and exhaust port.
It's alot easier to do than you think and will net roughly double horsepower.
Of course it doesn't have to end there.
Thanks for reading through my fit,
I think i may have neglected to mention the mods i want to do on the bike,
This sounds stupid but i want to litterally make the most powerful cag engine possible, reliability is not a priority though it would be nice.
But basically I have purchased all mods available for a cag and i want to make them all harmonize together with the biggest parts i can.
i own a wt-813 and a sha14 both are reps but i found sha for cheap.
i have a rocket key, boost bottle , head kit with boost ports , a ktm 50 pipe , light flywheel, light clutch ,fcc to be balanced and lighten the rod, case flowported with lube channels to the bearings, piston lightened and bigger windows will be polished , 3 boost ports with the middle one oversize, bigger transfers.port match to case , bigger exhaust port and polish. Check squish and port timing, Iridium ngk plug, nkg boot ,ngk wire. “Hp” coil . Big uni air filter. I bought jets for the sha. I got that ada 4 petal reed cage.
I really want to do everything know to cag , building is my fun i have other things to ride. Think of it like a science project of making a cag on steroids :)
Find me on fb Ryan Danovitch I’ll show you what i have been up to for the last 6 months , you'll either be impressed or discouraged lol
 

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Thanks for reading through my fit,
I think i may have neglected to mention the mods i want to do on the bike,
This sounds stupid but i want to litterally make the most powerful cag engine possible, reliability is not a priority though it would be nice.
But basically I have purchased all mods available for a cag and i want to make them all harmonize together with the biggest parts i can.
i own a wt-813 and a sha14 both are reps but i found sha for cheap.
i have a rocket key, boost bottle , head kit with boost ports , a ktm 50 pipe , light flywheel, light clutch ,fcc to be balanced and lighten the rod, case flowported with lube channels to the bearings, piston lightened and bigger windows will be polished , 3 boost ports with the middle one oversize, bigger transfers.port match to case , bigger exhaust port and polish. Check squish and port timing, Iridium ngk plug, nkg boot ,ngk wire. “Hp” coil . Big uni air filter. I bought jets for the sha. I got that ada 4 petal reed cage.
I really want to do everything know to cag , building is my fun i have other things to ride. Think of it like a science project of making a cag on steroids :)
Find me on fb Ryan Danovitch I’ll show you what i have been up to for the last 6 months , you'll either be impressed or discouraged lol
Look forward to seeing this build 😃

Anyway my untested reed mod is to take a fiberglass soft Reed and then trim down the tin Reed and put that over the top of the fiberglass reed to help stiffen it enforce the Reed to close faster effectively starting to load the transfer Ports sooner
 

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What's your poison? Mine is 40:1
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Thanks for reading through my fit,
I think i may have neglected to mention the mods i want to do on the bike,
This sounds stupid but i want to litterally make the most powerful cag engine possible, reliability is not a priority though it would be nice.
But basically I have purchased all mods available for a cag and i want to make them all harmonize together with the biggest parts i can.
i own a wt-813 and a sha14 both are reps but i found sha for cheap.
i have a rocket key, boost bottle , head kit with boost ports , a ktm 50 pipe , light flywheel, light clutch ,fcc to be balanced and lighten the rod, case flowported with lube channels to the bearings, piston lightened and bigger windows will be polished , 3 boost ports with the middle one oversize, bigger transfers.port match to case , bigger exhaust port and polish. Check squish and port timing, Iridium ngk plug, nkg boot ,ngk wire. “Hp” coil . Big uni air filter. I bought jets for the sha. I got that ada 4 petal reed cage.
I really want to do everything know to cag , building is my fun i have other things to ride. Think of it like a science project of making a cag on steroids :)
Find me on fb Ryan Danovitch I’ll show you what i have been up to for the last 6 months , you'll either be impressed or discouraged lol
I support this build. One thing to know about the rocket key, if tour power level is high, you will need to retard the timing.
On the porting, less is more. Dont go crazy, even if you stuff a fcc in it. Fcc is great for low end, a knife edged half moon is 'usually ' better for high rpm.
With that said, YES, port match the case to the cylinder, widen the transfer ports, (one wide boost port is usually the best) but go for the 3 boost ports. ( other memebers found boost port covering too much of the back of the cylinder to be a loss of power) but, I see you are all about exploring, do it! Install high quality case bearings, lube the seals etc. I am excited to see an extreme build. I have read about others on hear but wasnt hear first hand even though I have been at this for long before that. I just haven't gone to the extremes and definitely learned when I started reading this forum after mistakes I have.
Once the engine is built, try both carburetors, try different cylinders, anything. Make it yours.
 

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What's your poison? Mine is 40:1
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I believe 5-6hp is attainable pretty easily. More is possible but things start to get crazy and unreliable. But you might be headed there. A few on this forum have gone for more and have done it. High compression and race fuel plus all the other modifications.
You may get there.
 

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If your making more then 5.5 HP I would highly recommend studing the cylinder to prevent the block from stripping from taking the cylinder on and off all the time to change the connecting rod wrist pin bearing
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Look forward to seeing this build 😃

Anyway my untested reed mod is to take a fiberglass soft Reed and then trim down the tin Reed and put that over the top of the fiberglass reed to help stiffen it enforce the Reed to close faster effectively starting to load the transfer Ports sooner
Nice .Yeah i think thats the home made “triple stage” mod it seems to work okay, from what i saw , if you do try it before me lemme know how you like it, i
I support this build. One thing to know about the rocket key, if tour power level is high, you will need to retard the timing.
On the porting, less is more. Dont go crazy, even if you stuff a fcc in it. Fcc is great for low end, a knife edged half moon is 'usually ' better for high rpm.
With that said, YES, port match the case to the cylinder, widen the transfer ports, (one wide boost port is usually the best) but go for the 3 boost ports. ( other memebers found boost port covering too much of the back of the cylinder to be a loss of power) but, I see you are all about exploring, do it! Install high quality case bearings, lube the seals etc. I am excited to see an extreme build. I have read about others on hear but wasnt hear first hand even though I have been at this for long before that. I just haven't gone to the extremes and definitely learned when I started reading this forum after mistakes I have.
Once the engine is built, try both carburetors, try different cylinders, anything. Make it yours.
Yeah i agree with ya about the boost ports, the kit i bought a while back has 3 small equal boost ports, that was before i started reading but figured what the hey ill try it , my idea behind making the middle one bigger is because 1 the windows barely reach the outer ports and im trying to make the middle one overpower the 2 others so that its basically the only one going, but im really not sure about this one, maybe just leave them small and have them pull equal .. also would 1 wide bp still be optimal over a twin? You are right though ive rarely seen pro builds with more than 1 boost port. Besides maybe those bzm 6 ports. And yeah not too sure about the fcc either , we’ll see :) thanks guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I believe 5-6hp is attainable pretty easily. More is possible but things start to get crazy and unreliable. But you might be headed there. A few on this forum have gone for more and have done it. High compression and race fuel plus all the other modifications.
You may get there.
Wow now that’s encouraging, i was expecting 5hp if lucky 😵‍💫
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If your making more then 5.5 HP I would highly recommend studing the cylinder to prevent the block from stripping from taking the cylinder on and off all the time to change the connecting rod wrist pin bearing
Good idea
 

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Nice .Yeah i think thats the home made “triple stage” mod it seems to work okay, from what i saw , if you do try it before me lemme know how you like it, i

Yeah i agree with ya about the boost ports, the kit i bought a while back has 3 small equal boost ports, that was before i started reading but figured what the hey ill try it , my idea behind making the middle one bigger is because 1 the windows barely reach the outer ports and im trying to make the middle one overpower the 2 others so that its basically the only one going, but im really not sure about this one, maybe just leave them small and have them pull equal .. also would 1 wide bp still be optimal over a twin? You are right though ive rarely seen pro builds with more than 1 boost port. Besides maybe those bzm 6 ports. And yeah not too sure about the fcc either , we’ll see :) thanks guys
Ah, I see. 3 will work, 2 do as well but one wide is the best. You can make them a little deeper in the cylinder and 1-2mm taller than the transfer ports. No more than that. Most premade ones are taller, just not very deep.
I would use it. Also widen the base of the boost ports. I will see if I can find a pic.
 
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