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Bicycle with Engine
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everybody, I just bought what i believe to be a Cat Eye Fs-509 pocket bike with electric starter from a guy on craigslist. I have been going over the entire bike making sure everything is working correctly. The only thing the guy told me it needed was a new fuse which i could pick up from any electric supply store. I bought a new fuse and realized the battery was dead. I removed the battery and took the bike out for a spin before dark and was pleased to discover that while the bike is running, the voltage regulator will still power my lights/turn signals/ horn without the battery connected. Only thing was the lights would dim as the engine came to idle and would only reach full power when the bike was running at full speed.

One day while riding during normal use voltage regulator suddenly stopped working. No lights, signals, etc. I ordered a new battery and voltage regulator and both seem to work fine... unless both connected simultaneously. When i plug the voltage regulator into the harness, it starts to smoke and tries to turn the engine over. With the battery connected and the regulator disconnected, the lights, horn, signals, starter all work fine. What could be the problem of why the regulator starts to smoke?
 

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Sounds like you have a short somewhere in the wiring........You can buy a new wiring harness or you can remove all the wiring all togetherplus battery and e-start guts and gain a lil perf and lighten-up the bike a lil and still e able to still start it like a weedeater

Welcome to the site and good luck
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks a lot! I appreciate your feedback. Im pretty sure the wiring harness is fine and there are no shorts. I have visually inspected and followed each wire and they seem to be in tact. I had previously tried testing all the electronics with a 12v power inverter a few weeks ago after i had removed the original dead battery by connecting the leads to the 12v inverter. everything seemed to work fine including the starter solenoid which would click but wasn't able to deliver enough power to crank the engine wich was OK for the time being; i just wanted to make sure everything worked at least...:p

After numerous hours of searching forums and looking over voltage regulator wiring diagrams i think i may have found the reason. I noticed that there are 3 connections being made to the regulator but there are 4 pins... i think the previous owner may have changed the wires around after the battery had gone bad in order to get some kind of power to the bike.:rolleyes: Either that or it may have been the correct way the old silver regulator was wired internally (new volt reg is black)

It came with the wires connected as following:
Top left - red wire, bottom left - yellow wire, top right has (2) black wires connected to each other (one going to the ground in the main wiring harness where all the black wires have been soldered together; the other goes to the ground on the rear turn signals/brake light harness) but the bottom right pin is left with nothing connected. The 2 grounds look professionally crimped together from the factory into the connector in the harness so i doubt anything was messed with except the position of the wires.

I came to the conclusion that the red wire is in the correct position but the yellow wire needs to be switched to the top right, then the (2) ground wires should be connected to the bottom right pin. This leaves the bottom left pin with nothing even though i dont have any extra wires to connect. Judging by what the forums have said it looks like what goes to the bottom left pin is a white wire coming from the stator? I Dont see such a wire.

Anyway, today i connected the wires in this orientation and NO sparks-NO SmokEEE:D However when i start the engine and disconnect the battery..... No dim headlights at idle or any power at all getting thru with the regulator plugged in. It may have been too late for the regulator and i already fried it in the process of testing it. This is my second volt reg i have purchased while testing the bike. The first one i plugged in and it smoked a LOT before I realized to disconnect the battery so i just ran it like that for a day with some power getting to the headlights like usual until it crapped out a day later. I was at least hoping this new one would still work after not being plugged in and tested for so long and it would still be able provide some sort of power to the headlights just so i can have the peace of mind knowing i have the wiring correct.

Basically im wondering if this is the correct way to wire the voltage regulator and if I leave nothing connected to the bottom left pin will that still work and deliver the power needed to charge the battery? Can anyone explain to me the basics of how the whole charging system works? I would really like to have the electricity working properly since I've fixed just about every little mechanical issue that can possibly exist on this bike. I have really learned a lot about these things and they sure are a lot of fun to work on! :D Thanks again!! -Mike
 

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Youll be surprised how many think the rectifier is a CDI box and think that these small two strokes come with them................LOL.....LOL

The yellow wire comes from the starter side of the solenoid terminal so when the engine starts-up the starter becomes the generator and feeds the raw current generated into the yellow wire which gets rectified and regulated thru the regulator/rectifier to charge the battery

The red wire goes to the output side of the keyswitch so it can be controlled when the keyswitch is turned on and off so it doesnt drain the battery when the bike sits dormant

The two blacks are in the other two holes...Both are grounded..The right way to wire them is one ground frame and one ground engine so when the rectifier overvolts and dumps the current through ground it doesnt send a powersurge back into the regulator through the operating ground strongly......The chinese are very poor at wiring systems right......Good Luck

 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Okay this makes more sense but im still a little confused as to which of the 2 grounds go to the frame and the engine. The two current ground wires are connected to each other in the same pin. maybe i need to create a new wire and run it to the ground in the engine or the frame? Any other pics would be appreciated thanks!!
 

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Okay this makes more sense but im still a little confused as to which of the 2 grounds go to the frame and the engine. The two current ground wires are connected to each other in the same pin. maybe i need to create a new wire and run it to the ground in the engine or the frame? Any other pics would be appreciated thanks!!
No need to be confused..The chinese twist them two black wires together and meld them into one big solder junction in the middle of the harness which is a totally wrong way to wire-in a rectifier because it causes voltage surges when the rectifier overvolts and dumps that extra energy into the system ground but in case you were wondering how to wire it correctly..........

The black wire opposite the yellow grounds to the wire harness or engine.......The yellow wire is the input wire therefore the black ground opposite of it makes the grounding contact for the system side to get the rectifier working........

The black wire opposite the red wire grounds seperately to the frame to be wired right..........seeings the red wire is the regulated voltage wire to charge the battery and run the lighting while the engine is running...That black ground wire opposite the red wire becomes the voltage dump wire when the rectifier overvolts and needs to control the power level by dumping the excess voltage to ground............When wired right the voltage surge feedback in very minimal and will never cause any electrical problems again...........

The ground wire coming from the coil needs to be clipped from the system ground and attached to the frame or engine grounded seperately too.....The way the chinese wire bikes the coils voltage gets grounded direct into the wire harness ground causing surges to the generator and rectifier while the engine shuts down.............
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Im pretty sure i understand this, but let me confirm a few things before i screw anything up. The top right wire should be grounded to the harness (which it already is) in the solder junction. There is a wire in the junction that runs right to a bolt on the engine. I take it this is the same as the engine ground? Also I still have that ground wire coming from the rear turn signal/brake harness plug. This one is attached to the top right wire. Should it be soldered in the junction or is this fine? It would leave a total of 5 wires coming from the volt reg. Two grounds in the top right pin. Is this correct?

The bottom right ground should be connected to the frame? Where would be the best place for connecting this wire? drilling a hole in the frame and bolting it on? At first i thought the voltage regulator itself was grounded to the frame but was painted in a heavy black matte finish so i removed some of the paint from the underside of the regulator and the paint where it sits on the frame. Maybe i could run this ground to the unpainted spot under the voltage regulator?

This still leaves me wondering which wire your talking about that needs to be clipped from the 'coil' and installed on the frame as well....
 

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Im pretty sure i understand this, but let me confirm a few things before i screw anything up. The top right wire should be grounded to the harness (which it already is) in the solder junction. There is a wire in the junction that runs right to a bolt on the engine. I take it this is the same as the engine ground? Also I still have that ground wire coming from the rear turn signal/brake harness plug. This one is attached to the top right wire. Should it be soldered in the junction or is this fine? It would leave a total of 5 wires coming from the volt reg. Two grounds in the top right pin. Is this correct?

The bottom right ground should be connected to the frame? Where would be the best place for connecting this wire? drilling a hole in the frame and bolting it on? At first i thought the voltage regulator itself was grounded to the frame but was painted in a heavy black matte finish so i removed some of the paint from the underside of the regulator and the paint where it sits on the frame. Maybe i could run this ground to the unpainted spot under the voltage regulator?

This still leaves me wondering which wire your talking about that needs to be clipped from the 'coil' and installed on the frame as well....
As long as the power dump ground wire is isolated away from and is not hooked into the main ground in the harness the power surge becomes minimal because it isnt totally associated directly with the wiring harness and the other periferrals............

You can take that second ground and add a crimp-on terminal lug and bolt the voltage dump wire directly to the frame or engine screw

Look at the two wires coming from the fancase cover.......youll see a two wire plug with a red and a black wire........Clip out the black wire,,crimp a terminal ring onto it and ground it to the engine case or frame seperately....The red is the hot that cuts the engine off..when the ground is looped into the main harness wiring the voltage being grounded off when the killswitch is thrown is surging back into the other parts working off the wiring harness creating a damaging powersurge everytime the killswitch is activated............That results in blown lightbulbs,,failing rectifiers and generators aswell as unexplained faulty connections and blown fuses

On real japan streetbikes and MX bikes the keyswitch and killswitch dont connect back into the harness ground in one big ground loop...They ground direct to the frame


Like I said early in the prior post you can simply hook it up like the chinese by putting both grounds together then wiring them into the ground loop,,,leave the killswitch wires alone and hope for the best........I was explaining the mistakes the chinese make by taking shortcuts when they build wiring harnesses.........Shortcuts that work but arent correct according to the laws of electric...
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Almost got it. There are two wires coming from the fan case that are solid black and black/white. Correct me if im wrong, but the black is ground and black/white is positive? This particular model does not have a kill switch on it; only a 2 position key switch. Ive traced the two pos/neg wires from the fancase which are in a black shielded tubing and they go to the main harness then directly to to the key switch.

Feel kinda dumb asking this, but where should i cut the negative cable from the fancase and which side of the wire do i mount to the engine screw/frame?... lol..

Btw, the pullstarter bolt somehow broke off inside of the engine while trying to E start...:confused: I heard the bolt snap right off and start to spin and vibrate around inside the pullstart cover while the engine had just started.. no clue as to why this would happen using the electric starter..... I took the pullstart off and the starter pawl and bolt slid right out... I ordered the new bolt from pocketbikeparts.com which should get here tomorrow.. i have been using a car battery to jump start the engine because the bike battery has dipped below engine cranking capability and i don't have a charger for the battery... (If only i got the regulator working in time):p I Connected a volt meter to the battery and reads constant 12.75 volts. I noticed the meter drops to about 5 volts when actually pressing the E start to turn the bike over. I'm not sure whether this is normal or not for these batteries.

Soo...If i connect the wiring the way you said, will jump starting automatically fry the regulator or something else??? I have been connecting the car battery positive to the stator wire, and the negative to the side of the metal pullstarter housing. Seems to work just fine but im wondering: Can I still jumpstart the engine using this method to get the bike initially started in order for the regulator to charge the battery enough so that i can use the E start until i figure out how to get the broken bolt out of the engine and replace the 'backup' pullstart... Thanks again - Mike
 

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Almost got it. There are two wires coming from the fan case that are solid black and black/white. Correct me if im wrong, but the black is ground and black/white is positive? This particular model does not have a kill switch on it; only a 2 position key switch. Ive traced the two pos/neg wires from the fancase which are in a black shielded tubing and they go to the main harness then directly to to the key switch.

Feel kinda dumb asking this, but where should i cut the negative cable from the fancase and which side of the wire do i mount to the engine screw/frame?... lol..

Btw, the pullstarter bolt somehow broke off inside of the engine while trying to E start...:confused: I heard the bolt snap right off and start to spin and vibrate around inside the pullstart cover while the engine had just started.. no clue as to why this would happen using the electric starter..... I took the pullstart off and the starter pawl and bolt slid right out... I ordered the new bolt from pocketbikeparts.com which should get here tomorrow.. i have been using a car battery to jump start the engine because the bike battery has dipped below engine cranking capability and i don't have a charger for the battery... (If only i got the regulator working in time):p I Connected a volt meter to the battery and reads constant 12.75 volts. I noticed the meter drops to about 5 volts when actually pressing the E start to turn the bike over. I'm not sure whether this is normal or not for these batteries.

Soo...If i connect the wiring the way you said, will jump starting automatically fry the regulator or something else??? I have been connecting the car battery positive to the stator wire, and the negative to the side of the metal pullstarter housing. Seems to work just fine but im wondering: Can I still jumpstart the engine using this method to get the bike initially started in order for the regulator to charge the battery enough so that i can use the E start until i figure out how to get the broken bolt out of the engine and replace the 'backup' pullstart... Thanks again - Mike

The solid black gets cut and terminaled then grounded to the engine case or frame .........

Jump starting can fry the regulator if you use a running car.....

I have a thread outlinming how to remove the e-starter

http://www.pocketbikeplanet.com/showthread.php?t=58861
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hmm sorry should have been more specific. Once the wire is cut, which end gets terminaled and connected? does that leave an extra wire just hanging out? maybe i could use that for the extra ground wire that i need in the regulator...lol
 

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Hmm sorry should have been more specific. Once the wire is cut, which end gets terminaled and connected? does that leave an extra wire just hanging out? maybe i could use that for the extra ground wire that i need in the regulator...lol
The solid black wire coming from the coil gets clipped at the plug ,,terminaled and grounded seperately from the harness..........the black w/white stays connected to the harness..............
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you so much :D im pretty sure I understand how this whole thing operates now... il post back later to let you know how things turn out or if I have any more questions... Looks like i'm heading to radio shack tomorrow to pick up ring terminals and the hardware store to pick up a bolt to remove the armature
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So I managed to remove the armature no problem.... As I suspected, the bolt is broken off too far inside the shaft so that i cant get to it..... How would you go about this one?? I tried drilling through the bolt but it dulls out all my bits....

Meanwhile I connected the wires to the voltage regulator and grounded one to the main circuit and the other to the engine. I plugged it in and it still smokes:mad: I really have no clue what it could be at this point....
 

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So I managed to remove the armature no problem.... As I suspected, the bolt is broken off too far inside the shaft so that i cant get to it..... How would you go about this one?? I tried drilling through the bolt but it dulls out all my bits....

Meanwhile I connected the wires to the voltage regulator and grounded one to the main circuit and the other to the engine. I plugged it in and it still smokes:mad: I really have no clue what it could be at this point....

The short 1/8" diameter drillbits that come in the dremel accessory kits go right through the broken screws.......
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks, I'll try to tackle that screw today..... As for the voltage regulator, I'm pretty much at a loss...lol... I really wouldn't like to have to remove all of the electronics since it's what makes the bike totally cool IMO.:D What if I just buy a new switch harness? All of the electronics still work...
 

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Thanks, I'll try to tackle that screw today..... As for the voltage regulator, I'm pretty much at a loss...lol... I really wouldn't like to have to remove all of the electronics since it's what makes the bike totally cool IMO.:D What if I just buy a new switch harness? All of the electronics still work...
If you havent gotten the engine runing yet the state of the rectifier is up in the air....when the engine runs youll be able to see if it works unless you know how to do a diagnostic test on diodes...

You should be able to tell the condition of the starters function by checking out the armature and the brushes.......If they look burnt,,oxidized or rusted theres a chance it wont work right........

The lights may make the bike look cool but its pretty expensive replacing the battery and e-starter if needed just for looking cool...The headlight doesnt have enough power to be effective for actually see where your riding and the speedometer isnt close to being accurate
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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881 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Got the bolt out and the pullstarter on with no problem. A screw extractor did the trick. Now I have a way to actually start the bike!!:D After clipping the ground wire from the fancase it woulndn't run..... so i reconnected the wire to the plug the way it was and it started right up.

The voltage regulator is wired just as you described and it delivers power to the lights and signals with the engine running...... It starts to fry as soon as i plug in the battery

And as for the cool factor of the headlights vs. functionality, I put in higher wattage bulbs so I actually can see in the dark pretty well... In my neighborhood there are plenty of streetlights so i wouldn't even need the headlights in order to see where im going....:p lol but it would be nice for a quick night ride to my buddy's house who lives a few streets down from me... Also for safety reasons so any cars would be able to see me.
 

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Got the bolt out and the pullstarter on with no problem. A screw extractor did the trick. Now I have a way to actually start the bike!!:D After clipping the ground wire from the fancase it woulndn't run..... so i reconnected the wire to the plug the way it was and it started right up.

The voltage regulator is wired just as you described and it delivers power to the lights and signals with the engine running...... It starts to fry as soon as i plug in the battery

And as for the cool factor of the headlights vs. functionality, I put in higher wattage bulbs so I actually can see in the dark pretty well... In my neighborhood there are plenty of streetlights so i wouldn't even need the headlights in order to see where im going....:p lol but it would be nice for a quick night ride to my buddy's house who lives a few streets down from me... Also for safety reasons so any cars would be able to see me.
I know why the rectifiers frying...The bulbs you added have too much wattage draw for the generator,,,,Its only 50watts of output thats why the chinese put crappy low wattage bulbs
 

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Bicycle with Engine
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think you might be correct! I vaguely remember this happening right after I changed out the lights. I couldn't find the same 12v 10w bulbs at pep boys but found some similar but slightly larger bulbs. They were 12V 11.3W #1003... Here I thought, "Should be brighter right?" lol
 
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